Newbies w/ literbikes...

[Karaya One]

What you want is what is used in Japan and the UK - tiered licencing.

Does it work - debatable. What you have is kids riding around on NSR and RGV250's, or VFR400R's instead of R6's.

You can die just as easily on a Buell Blast as an R1.

What we need is a much better education system.

[Kham]

teenagers are dangerous. i say limit it to age 21, just like drinking.

[chr|s sedition]

the problem is ignorance (which includes ego)

it is apprent that someone should learn to juggle with tennis balls instead of knives. the same choices arn't as apprent as to why a 500cc is better to learn on than an R1. New riders arn't even aware of what it is that they *dont know* about riding. the only way to gain that skill set is by experience, and experience only comes with a lot of mistakes. mistakes on a modern 600 / 1000 bike can be really bad.

in the MSF course they talk about a "chain of events" which leads to a crash. the "chain" stated above starts with making an uneducated descion about what to get for a first bike. it ends with a squid in the hospital and higher insurance rates for the rest of us.

Oreo, I am with you. There should be some kinda regulation on what people get for a first bike.

-sedition

[Rhonda66]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
(btw, Rhonda... i just looked it up... GA accidents are down, motorcycling accidents are way up)

Where did you read these stats? I'd like to see them (just for my own purposes, not the thread...)

[OreoGaborio]

http://www.aopa.org/asf/accident_data/
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Stats.htm

most notably, http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Table10.htm

[Rhonda66]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
http://www.aopa.org/asf/accident_data/
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Stats.htm

Thanks - I do regularly read the NTSB reports - is there anything like this for bike incidents?

I don't think they really compare in this respect anyway when you compare the sheer number of people who fly to the number of people who ride bikes, ya know? My point was on the decision making process and how it spreads across all kinds of activities.

I suppose if you can tell someone they can't buy a drink or cigarettes till they're 21 or 18, then you can tell them they can't ride a bike for sure.

It's just that all the dumbasses I know who were in the types of accidents we're talking about were really seriously dumbasses; ie, no license, borrowed bike, running from the cops, leaving the scene of an accident, doing stunts, driving too fast, DUI or high...I think no matter what size bike you have, if you have those kind of tendencies, you're going to do something stupid anyways...

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Karaya One
You can die just as easily on a Buell Blast as an R1.

I've heard this stated as fact a million times and I don't believe that it's even remotely true.

[Kham]

teenager is the problem. im telling you. not all of them but that's rare case. put them on a honda civic and they can do 200mph. you mix this with cell phone use, soccer mom, DUI, etc. = disaster. then everyone pays the insurance height.

[Kham]

someone post the increase MC fatality stats and guess what? large percentage of that are adults over 40 on cruisers?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Kham
put them on a honda civic and they can do 200mph.

Car surfing is bad, mmkay

[Rhonda66]

Originally posted by Kham
someone post the increase MC fatality stats and guess what? large percentage of that are adults over 40 on cruisers?

It's so true too - had a relative last year get hit on a cruiser - she lived, but is a veg and her boyfriend was killed (in his 60s)...

[Honclfibr]

I think tiered licensing is a good thing. Is it a solution to motorcycle fatalities? No, of course not. Motorcycling is a dangerous sport, filled with many factors that are out of the rider's control. So long as there are cars, and deer, and oil slicks, there will always be motorcycle fatalities.

But what tiered licensing does for the new rider, it tells them "Hey, slow down, take a second to get familiar with this new interest that you've found. We understand that you want performance, and we can respect that, hell most of us are adrenaline junkies ourselves, that's why we got into sportbiking instead of synchronized knitting. But motorcycling is dangerous, take the time to sharpen your skillset before you attempt to be the baddest motherfucker out there."

Motorcycling is a game of experience, you may be the hottest thing on a bike since Rossi but will you react properly the first time you come around a decreasing radius left hander to find a 4000 pound gorilla in your lane 50 feet ahead? Probably not if you're powering around the 30mph curve at 90mph on that brand new GZXR-1000 you just bought off the factory floor and are now testing the stratospheric limits of. Maybe not if you're "plodding along" at 50mph on a EX250 either, but you'll have a few seconds extra to comtemplate your mistake, at the very least.

[Kham]

comon. a 250 can do 90mph around corner. can it?

[TheIglu]

I agree with tiered licensing. It's a good idea.

I had more that enough bike under me at 16 with a 400.

My friend just got his first bike. I said SV650. He said "but it's only a 650, I'll get bored with it".



I also agree that we shouldn't limit. People will bitch about not being able to kill themselves. Let'em. Just make the insurance so that a rider death doesn't effect my premiums and I'll be happy.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by Rhonda66
I don't think they really compare in this respect anyway when you compare the sheer number of people who fly to the number of people who ride bikes, ya know?

that's why you look at the rates, not the numbers.... "crashes per" something, not "total crashes"

and as for the old dudes on choppers.... absolutely they're a big part of the numbers, probably more-so than the young squids, i'm not sure, i'd have to look into it.... but the fact stands that the media & general public is continuing to ignore that fact.

either way, coming up with some kind of reasonable legislation that limits what you can get for a first bike and increasing the required training would help everyone. i don't think i have to list the reasons why. And that legislation should come from people that are already in the motorcycling community, not some dumbass on capitol hill who's never been on a bike & just lost his son to a bike accident. I would be suprised if some kinda laws are set in the future and i think the people that KNOW motorcycling should be the ones to help make it.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by Kham
comon. a 250 can do 90mph around corner. can it?

Kham, a 125 can do 90 around a corner. Turn on GP racing and see what those "little" bikes can do.

True, it is easier to get stupid on a fast bike than a slow one. We see plenty of examples of that here on NESR.

Had I not had a 115hp spinnin up my rear wheel, I wouldn't of highsided last year. Though if I had a 600 with less torque, I woulda been just as stupid in the next corner. The only difference? I woulda had more false confidence since I made the last corner. I learned the easy way what a ham-fist, dry/old tire and riding under the weather can do. I got out of it easy. Sprained ankle, some cuts, but nothing major. It could have been a very bad situation with oncoming traffic.

The bike does make a difference. Riding a slow bike fast makes you a better rider(IMHO). Riding something with limited traction/brakes/suspension/power gets you familiar with the limits without going rediculously fast. Like riding in the dirt before the street, you get to know how to get yourself out of stickey situations without having no way out.

[Kham]

you know i have NOT spun up my rear tire on my zx10 and by most people here, im not qualify to own one. you should have seen me on the track. i was probly the slowest one. i now know the bike just wasn't setup right and the stock tires are bad.

im telling you. most teenagers are adreline junkies out of control. just like sex, hormon rage. take spring brake for example. it's deadly combo.

edit: i should add. so on the track it felt like if i push any further i would sure go down.

[Honclfibr]

[Kham]

Originally posted by Honclfibr

aren't you still 16 yrs old?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Kham
aren't you still 16 yrs old?

Don't I wish. Life is a lot simpler at 16.

[snowborder]

how about something more constructive other than a little whining about this....

Here is my suggestion:

When you buy and register a boat now, you have to take a "Safe Boating" class.

Why not require that everyone who wants to drive a MC take the MSF classes in order to get your liscense?

Also, I do notice the most stealerships do not ask for a copy of your liscense verifying that you do in fact have the MC endorsement, why not add that to the legislation?

[TheIglu]

It would make sense.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by highsider
Amazingly,

the thing is the people the would kill themselves on a litre bike will most likley do the same on a smaller one... small bikes go fast..

I understand what you are saying but it come down to the perosn...some can handle it...some cant. And you cannot tell the ones who can that they cannot get one because someone else may hurt themselves....

A friend of mine...22 just bought an 05 gsxr-600. I talked to him till i was blue in the face to try and tell him to get a used one...but he had to have it. But he is doing the right thing...riding well within his limits and wearing all the proper gear etc....

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I've heard this stated as fact a million times and I don't believe that it's even remotely true.

you also voted for Kerry and thought he'd win

[bigred875]

Originally posted by snowborder
how about something more constructive other than a little whining about this....

Here is my suggestion:

When you buy and register a boat now, you have to take a "Safe Boating" class.

Why not require that everyone who wants to drive a MC take the MSF classes in order to get your liscense?

Also, I do notice the most stealerships do not ask for a copy of your liscense verifying that you do in fact have the MC endorsement, why not add that to the legislation?

it is in RI.. you have to take it in order to get your permit...and they only charge $40

you take the course..get your permit and a cert saying you passed the course...then you keep it for 30 days and you can go to the reg. and get your license for $15