NH Rider Ed Program

[oVTo]

New Hampshire House Bill HB1503 will change the law for rider training effective July 2012. If passed, the bill will eliminate the state-run program (MREP) and turn over all training to private companies approved by the state. MREP trains about 2,500 people/year @$100 each. I believe the cost is subsidized by a charge on license renewals or registrations, but I'm not sure. The private schools train about 900 people/year at $220, $290, and $345 each.

Here's a link of the wording of the bill.

If you have an opinion on this topic, you might want to contact your state Rep. and the members of the Transportation Committee.

[mzdagrl]

New Hampshire House Bill HB1503 will change the law for rider training effective July 2012. If passed, the bill will eliminate the state-run program (MREP) and turn over all training to private companies approved by the state. MREP trains about 2,500 people/year @$100 each. I believe the cost is subsidized by a charge on license renewals or registrations, but I'm not sure. The private schools train about 900 people/year at $220, $290, and $345 each.

Here's a link of the wording of the bill.

If you have an opinion on this topic, you might want to contact your state Rep. and the members of the Transportation Committee.

Will this effect current endorsement holders in any way? I have a kid crawling on me and lack the motivation to read the mumbo jumbo.

[oVTo]

Will this effect current endorsement holders in any way? I have a kid crawling on me and lack the motivation to read the mumbo jumbo.

License holders won't be affected (I think, I didn't read it all). Permit holders will be affected.

[KnuckleBallz]

That sucks- this is how I got my license. Worked out pretty decent so far. Real simple too. One weekend in Laconia & at the end of it you're good to go.

[Doc]

I agree with letting it go private, but disagree with the fees.

[Degsy]

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I agree with letting it go private, but disagree with the fees.

What fees?

[Doc]

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What fees?

It appears more expensive if the state doesn't run it. Too bad for new riders.

[mzdagrl]

It appears more expensive if the state doesn't run it. Too bad for new riders.

On the other hand, perhaps higher fees will be a knucklehead deterrent?

[Doc]

On the other hand, perhaps higher fees will be a knucklehead deterrent?

That is my point, It is the poor knucleheads that spent all their money on a bike and NO gear that NEED the training.

[Degsy]

OK, a couple of points:

1. That bill is aimed squarely at saving money for the state. Ergo, they aren't going to subsidize rider training. Schools will be running a private program.

2. I have done the math on this a few times and the absolute minimum you are going to offer a BRC for is $275 and that is cutting it close for a school with nice bikes and a nice facility that is fully booked for the whole season (in NH that will be April-oct).

3. These courses work much better if the student has a monetary investment in the course. If people are paying good money, they might actually LISTEN and PARTICIPATE instead of just kind of standing around the range and falling asleep in the classroom. Rhode Island has a state subsidized, mandatory BRC and I have heard all kinds of horror stories from students about other students being disruptive, the instructors (rider coaches) having a bad attitude etc.

I'm all for mandatory training, but let the state do that if they want to make it mandatory. They can deal with the assholes who arrive in beanie helmets. I'll stick to my $300 students who WANT to learn, not just NEED a license.

NH goes as far as introducing a bill on rider training to save less than a million dollars when they could just make helmets mandatory and save much more money and more lives.

[scottieducati]

Privatizing it is the way to go.

[ilikenapalm]

lol I love how people are like "Oh man, we gotta get our country out of massive debt"

but they don't want to see programs like these go away.

[RandyO]

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What fees?

there are always fees, the state will still charge the same for a motorcycle endorsement/renewal


to keep the program, they will have to raise the license fee

I say cut the program, let private schools or local school districts take care of it just like drivers ed for cagers

dismantle the bureaucracy and put state workers on unemployment

[oVTo]

OK, a couple of points:

<snip>

3. These courses work much better if the student has a monetary investment in the course. If people are paying good money, they might actually LISTEN and PARTICIPATE instead of just kind of standing around the range and falling asleep in the classroom. Rhode Island has a state subsidized, mandatory BRC and I have heard all kinds of horror stories from students about other students being disruptive, the instructors (rider coaches) having a bad attitude etc.

I'm all for mandatory training, but let the state do that if they want to make it mandatory. They can deal with the assholes who arrive in beanie helmets. I'll stick to my $300 students who WANT to learn, not just NEED a license.

NH goes as far as introducing a bill on rider training to save less than a million dollars when they could just make helmets mandatory and save much more money and more lives.

It's the "mandatory" that puts the people with attitude problems in class, not the lower price. The horror stories start with people who really don't want to be in class. They already know it all and resent being forced to pay $275, or even $100, to get a piece of paper. Out of thousands I've trained in both states, very few had attitude problems. In almost every case the problem was that mom and/or dad was making them take the course to get a bike.

I taught MSF in both NH ($100) MA ($275) for several years. The $100 students in NH were at least as actively engaged in the course as the $275 students in MA. The student mix is about the same as in MA. "Beanie assholes" don't take the BRC in either state. In my years of experience, no way does paying less mean the students care less or participate less.

The only important difference between the two states is that the NH classes were full with waiting lists. In MA, many classes get cancelled because there weren't enough students.

If the bill passes, the 3 companies that provide training probably won't be able to meet demand. Recently, the state averaged 2,600 students/year, and the private companies taught 900. So they would have to quadruple capacity. That means finding more classrooms and more parking lots that meet MSF criteria. That's not easy or cheap, and it takes time to get approved. It's not reasonable to assume that the state's ranges will be available for private companies. Two of the 3 private companies are at HD dealerships, so expanding off-site is difficult because part of their program revolves around the dealership facility and the HD lifestyle.

In NH permits will only be good for 45 days, you can only get one permit/year, and if you fail the NH DMV test twice you must take a riding course before you can get a license. So a likely outcome of the bill is that there will be more untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured riders on the roads of NH.

[nhbubba]

Sounds like I better get off my ass and sign up for that ERC I've been meaning to take.

[SVRACER01]

so they want to make drivers ed for motorcyclists mandatory?
you cant just take a written test, get your permit, make an appointment for the driving test, take the test on a 100cc scooter, pass, and then go ride your gixxer 1billion at mach 467 with no training whatsoever?
the state doesnt want to run it though for cost cutting?

sounds good to me. the only thing that would make it better is tiered mc licensing.

[csmutty]

CT made the training mandatory for last year and after teaching 8 classes last year I can say that I had no change in the quality of students. We had many people worried about that in our state as well, but from my standpoint I see no difference.

And Degsy is right. If the state did not subsidize it those prices are about right.

[oVTo]

so they want to make drivers ed for motorcyclists mandatory?
you cant just take a written test, get your permit, make an appointment for the driving test, take the test on a 100cc scooter, pass, and then go ride your gixxer 1billion at mach 467 with no training whatsoever?
the state doesnt want to run it though for cost cutting?

sounds good to me. the only thing that would make it better is tiered mc licensing.

No, you can still just take the RMV's motorcycle (very easy) test. The course is only mandatory to take a motorcycle safety course if you fail the RMV's test twice.

[oVTo]

CT made the training mandatory for last year and after teaching 8 classes last year I can say that I had no change in the quality of students. We had many people worried about that in our state as well, but from my standpoint I see no difference.

And Degsy is right. If the state did not subsidize it those prices are about right.

I was wondering whether the CT change was a problem last year. I don't know if MA will ever go mandatory, but it's good to hear it wasn't a big problem in CT.

I put together a business plan for a riding school several years ago as part of a college course I was taking, and came up with similar cost and pricing. One cost benefit the state has is better access to publicly owned parking lots like high schools and at the RMV sites. Finding a decent parking lot as a private company isn't easy. I'd guess that local school systems and the RMV would be more reluctant to rent the lots out and provide access to classroom space to a private company.

[TIMMYDUCK]

Riding was just so much more relaxed in the old days.

[nhbubba]

Am I missing something? I don't read anything here about mandatory classes for riders 18+.

Classes should not be mandatory (for 18+), IMO. Nor should classes be taxpayer subsidized.

I believe taking the test on a 250cc dual sport and then going straight to the HD dealer to buy a dresser should be your prerogative. You can't legislate out stupidity. Trying is a waste of time, effort, and money.

[csmutty]

Am I missing something? I don't read anything here about mandatory classes for riders 18+.

Classes should not be mandatory (for 18+), IMO. Nor should classes be taxpayer subsidized.

I believe taking the test on a 250cc dual sport and then going straight to the HD dealer to buy a dresser should be your prerogative. You can't legislate out stupidity. Trying is a waste of time, effort, and money.

It's not just stupidity when the unsafe operation of a vehicle could harm or kill another innocent person...

[nhbubba]

I think that's called reckless driving. And I think we already have laws against that.

[csmutty]

I think that's called reckless driving. And I think we already have laws against that.

Yes, but can anything be done when the person is already dead or permanently injured? No. You have to take action and educate people BEFORE, so as to (hopefully) reduce the chances that the tragic event will even occur.

[nhbubba]

Again, I think you're pissing into the wind.