Oil and filters?

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by richw
oem filter

change annually moldi one 15-50

when she's is being a bad girl she
can piss out a qt in a 100 miles

so she changes her own oil at least a qt every 300.

ALways did this and even after freshed motor new rings valve seals etc. Looking at pcv this winter may eliminate

Technically speaking; 1 qt every 100mi ain't good.

I would suspect a leak (such as the pcv or Pair), is there oil residue in the fairings? What bike is it?

[R7]

The race bike gets a oil & filter change after every race weekend no matter what, maybe only 1 1/2 hours running time tops. I always use a OE filter and spectro MC oil, non synthetic.

The streetbikes always get the same oil (spectro MC oil, non synthetic) and always the OE filter. Oil & filter change every 2k miles. On a new bike, it get's changed around the first 250 miles, then again at 1K, then every 2K after that.

I used the spectro synthetic for a while in my 98 R1. It got dirty looking just as fast as the regular oil and i ended up changing it at the same intervals anyways so i figured it was a waist of money

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by R7
The race bike gets a oil & filter change after every race weekend no matter what, maybe only 1 1/2 hours running time tops. I always use a OE filter and spectro MC oil, non synthetic.

The streetbikes always get the same oil (spectro MC oil, non synthetic) and always the OE filter. Oil & filter change every 2k miles. On a new bike, it get's changed around the first 250 miles, then again at 1K, then every 2K after that.

I used the spectro synthetic for a while in my 98 R1. It got dirty looking just as fast as the regular oil and i ended up changing it at the same intervals anyways so i figured it was a waist of money

Good job Mark! I use Golden Spectro too, Deg's recommendation.

Pssst, 1 1/2 hours AT RED LINE!!

[Degsy]

After my motor was tuned up a bit for more horsepower, the only oil I run in it is Red Line Racing oil 30w. I only run oem filters too, in ANY bike I have owned.

degs

[RandyO]

Originally posted by R7

I used the spectro synthetic for a while in my 98 R1. It got dirty looking just as fast as the regular oil and i ended up changing it at the same intervals anyways so i figured it was a waist of money

Of course it will get dirty just as fast, you engine will produce the same amount of contamination regardless of what oil you use...however, synthetics are suppose to safely hold more contamination in suspension.....

[R7]

Originally posted by R7
so i figured it was a waist of money

Can i explain it in another way?

[slingblade]

I've been under the impression that changing the oil as often as weekly/monthly (without the mileage of course) was actually bad.

I know on my bike its near impossible to fill the filter with oil after a change, unless of course I do it mid stoppie All those starts with no oil pressure can't be all that good even if everything is still coated

Now if you can fill the filter with oil, thats another story. Someone wanna edjama-cate me?

[RandyO]

Originally posted by R7

Originally posted by R7
so i figured it was a waist of money

Can i explain it in another way?

Oh I agree with you synthetics are a waste of money unless you take advantage of their higher milage capabilities.

either you have to "trust" the oil company that it will be safe to use for that many miles (how many, 10k? )

or you will want to "test" it periodicly... who has a lab? even if there is a quick test, you would still have to draw some oil.... you prolly could have changed it quicker.

ya, more I think of it..... it's a waste of money

[RandyO]

Originally posted by slingblade
I've been under the impression that changing the oil as often as weekly/monthly (without the mileage of course) was actually bad.

I know on my bike its near impossible to fill the filter with oil after a change, unless of course I do it mid stoppie All those starts with no oil pressure can't be all that good even if everything is still coated

Now if you can fill the filter with oil, thats another story. Someone wanna edjama-cate me?

Ya I think changing oil too much is bad

every time you pull the drain plug is one more time you have to be careful not to cross thread it when reinstalling, not get it tight enuf, yada, yada

every time you take the oil cap off the side cover is one more time you risk contamination dropping something besides oil inside.

Modern oils can hold a lot of dirt in suspension and still have proper lubricating quality.

and don't worry about not getting your filter full,every time you cold start it, there is no more oil in the bearing surface, what doesn't drain back to the sump doesn't make a difference if you took the oil filter out

the risks outweigh any benefit

[R7]

I use mobil 1 in my truck just so i can extend the miles but again, i still don't take full advantage of it. I change it every 6k in my truck with mobil 1 vs every 3k with regular oil. My truck has a engine oil life gauge, even with 6k miles on the oil, it said it had 50% oil life left The oil still came out clean as well

[R7]

Originally posted by slingblade
I've been under the impression that changing the oil as often as weekly/monthly (without the mileage of course) was actually bad.

I know on my bike its near impossible to fill the filter with oil after a change, unless of course I do it mid stoppie All those starts with no oil pressure can't be all that good even if everything is still coated

Now if you can fill the filter with oil, thats another story. Someone wanna edjama-cate me?

If you do like the manual says and prewarm the engine before an oil change, it makes no difference if you can or can't get oil in the filter after a oil change. The oil coating on all the moving parts won't have time fully drain back down in the short time it takes to replace the oil and filter. That oil filter is probably half full by the time the bike even fires to life

[ZX-12R]

There are several properties of synthetic oils which are advantageous to performance oriented motorcycle engines. First is their very high breakdown temperature. Today's high revving high compression engines generate very large amounts of heat, high enough to melt the aluminum pistons if it wasn't for the fact that most modern oil delivery systems directly spray the bottom of the pistons to keep them cool. Conventional oils break down much faster in these engines resulting in sludge buildup over time. Synthetics experience almost zero buildup.

Second, synthetics film and shear strength are superior to conventional oils. This isn't so much of a problem with cars that rev to 6 or 7 thousand RPMS but with new bikes on the market having readlines upwards of 16,000 rpms, the synthetics hold up much better than conventionals under the extreme stress of a high temperature high RPM environment.

Third, conventionals have many impurities that the synthetics do not have. Because conventionals are refined from crude oil, you will never get rid of contaminants like wax, sulpher, hydrocarbons, and several other reactive chemicals. All of this crud contributes to the sludge buildup in motors. Synthetics contain far less because they are created in a controlled manner.

Another reason, not so much for a motorcycle, is cold weather starting which is a realistic concern for those of us in Western MA, Northern NY, VT, NH and ME. There is no substitute for synthetics in this case. Without friction modifiers, synthetics can be pumped efficiently in temperatures even colder than -50F while still behaving like a perfect 30 or 40 weight when warmed up. This past winter when the temps hit -30F for a few days in a row, my car started without any issues or engine noises and ran perfectly smooth (Mobil 1 5-30).

While these factors may not be an issue to someone who plans on selling their ride after a year or two, it's a worthwile consideration for those of us planning keeping the bike for years and still run it hard! Except for price, synthetic oils are superior in every way shape and form over conventionals and there is plenty of science out their to prove it.

[KB]

I say use an oilfilter from Autozone and whatever oil they have on sale for .89 cents on sale.

KB

edit: I aint so good at the english today! on sale for on sale???

[oreo_n2]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
There are several properties of synthetic oils which are advantageous to performance oriented motorcycle engines. First is their very high breakdown temperature. Today's high revving high compression engines generate very large amounts of heat, high enough to melt the aluminum pistons if it wasn't for the fact that most modern oil delivery systems directly spray the bottom of the pistons to keep them cool. Conventional oils break down much faster in these engines resulting in sludge buildup over time. Synthetics experience almost zero buildup.

Second, synthetics film and shear strength are superior to conventional oils. This isn't so much of a problem with cars that rev to 6 or 7 thousand RPMS but with new bikes on the market having readlines upwards of 16,000 rpms, the synthetics hold up much better than conventionals under the extreme stress of a high temperature high RPM environment.

Third, conventionals have many impurities that the synthetics do not have. Because conventionals are refined from crude oil, you will never get rid of contaminants like wax, sulpher, hydrocarbons, and several other reactive chemicals. All of this crud contributes to the sludge buildup in motors. Synthetics contain far less because they are created in a controlled manner.

Another reason, not so much for a motorcycle, is cold weather starting which is a realistic concern for those of us in Western MA, Northern NY, VT, NH and ME. There is no substitute for synthetics in this case. Without friction modifiers, synthetics can be pumped efficiently in temperatures even colder than -50F while still behaving like a perfect 30 or 40 weight when warmed up. This past winter when the temps hit -30F for a few days in a row, my car started without any issues or engine noises and ran perfectly smooth (Mobil 1 5-30).

While these factors may not be an issue to someone who plans on selling their ride after a year or two, it's a worthwile consideration for those of us planning keeping the bike for years and still run it hard! Except for price, synthetic oils are superior in every way shape and form over conventionals and there is plenty of science out their to prove it.

what about clutch slippage in high power bikes with synthetic oils?

[KB]

blah blah blah blah......this is a tired horse already.

KB

[highsider]

If we can make synthetic oil, why can't we make synthetic gasoline?

[Awesome]

Originally posted by highsider
If we can make synthetic oil, why can't we make synthetic gasoline?

There have been experiments done with making gasoline from other fuels. It's possible just not worth the hassel. Cheaper to find and use alternate energy sources.

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by oreo_n2
what about clutch slippage in high power bikes with synthetic oils?

While I've heard that myth on the internet, I have never seen a case of it in real life. My 12R had never had a slippage problem. I know a number of people with 12Rs, 10Rs, and Busas that run synthetic and I have never once heard of a slippage problem.

[PinHead]

OEM filter with Motul 300v full syn..
Full syn. oil is recomended by Ducati so I use it.

[oreo_n2]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
While I've heard that myth on the internet, I have never seen a case of it in real life. My 12R had never had a slippage problem. I know a number of people with 12Rs, 10Rs, and Busas that run synthetic and I have never once heard of a slippage problem.

good to know.

i have always been paranoid and gone with semi-synth.

[Awesome]

I run full synthetic, and autozone filters. Probably stick with that on the street and go with the same on the track.

Are OEM filters all that different?

[MC]

OEM is my first choice actually. After peeking around the net at the sites where various people have cut motorcycle oil filters in half to examine the materials and construction, it turned out that the Honda OEM is very well put together, better than many of the aftermarket options...and ESPECIALLY better than Fram.

Here's a link to one of those "tests"

Clicky me here

[Karaya One]

The early synthetics were prone to pose clutch slippage problems, as well as break-in issues. This has been worked out.

When I began riding in the mid-80's, the rule of thumb was always dino for break-in and up to about 10,000 miles and then switch to a synth. Now, bikes from the start run a synth - Triumph is an example of this I believe.

Synthetic oil has come a long way in a short period of time. I sell a lot of Motul (french) and Motorex (swiss) motorcycle specific oil. The tech involved with them is amazing.

I just ordered two drums of Motorex Powersynth 4T 10W60 for a customer. At $1300.00 for a 55 gallon drum it is not cheap but every race team that runs it raves about it. This is the same stuff poured into Yosh's bikes.

The key is to change it. I do changes at every 2000 miles and a filter every 4000. It is very cheap insurance.

At one of my dealers, they have a Hayabusa getting a complete engine job. The main bearings were junk. The oil was blackened water. They don't think it was EVER changed. However, it did have a crazy paintjob and a polished frame...

[RandyO]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
There are several properties of synthetic oils which are advantageous to performance oriented motorcycle engines. First is their very high breakdown temperature. Today's high revving high compression engines generate very large amounts of heat, high enough to melt the aluminum pistons if it wasn't for the fact that most modern oil delivery systems directly spray the bottom of the pistons to keep them cool. Conventional oils break down much faster in these engines resulting in sludge buildup over time. Synthetics experience almost zero buildup.

Second, synthetics film and shear strength are superior to conventional oils. This isn't so much of a problem with cars that rev to 6 or 7 thousand RPMS but with new bikes on the market having readlines upwards of 16,000 rpms, the synthetics hold up much better than conventionals under the extreme stress of a high temperature high RPM environment.

Third, conventionals have many impurities that the synthetics do not have. Because conventionals are refined from crude oil, you will never get rid of contaminants like wax, sulpher, hydrocarbons, and several other reactive chemicals. All of this crud contributes to the sludge buildup in motors. Synthetics contain far less because they are created in a controlled manner.

Another reason, not so much for a motorcycle, is cold weather starting which is a realistic concern for those of us in Western MA, Northern NY, VT, NH and ME. There is no substitute for synthetics in this case. Without friction modifiers, synthetics can be pumped efficiently in temperatures even colder than -50F while still behaving like a perfect 30 or 40 weight when warmed up. This past winter when the temps hit -30F for a few days in a row, my car started without any issues or engine noises and ran perfectly smooth (Mobil 1 5-30).

While these factors may not be an issue to someone who plans on selling their ride after a year or two, it's a worthwile consideration for those of us planning keeping the bike for years and still run it hard! Except for price, synthetic oils are superior in every way shape and form over conventionals and there is plenty of science out their to prove it.

Synthetic is "waist" as R7 sez.. my SV has over100,000miles with whatever brand dino oil, changed per owners manual, no more, no less. never had any problem with cold starts, well at least down to -15° , I have never had the opportunity to go riding any colder.

I don't dispute that synthetic oil is superior.... so what.... dino oil is more than sufficient

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by RandyO
dino oil is more than sufficient

Dino juice is sufficient for a good number of people. But for a lot of us, sufficient just doesn't cut it. That is the point I was shooting for.