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H-D Pan America

  1. #76
    Hypertarded
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    Re: H-D Pan America


    Could we get the BMEP for the LiveWire?

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  2. #77
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    47 kThz

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    771 Racing -=- FaceBook
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  3. #78
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Now, back to the buzzwords comment, tossing around 'but liquid cooled' without why you want that particular feature, or consider it a perk or negative is just hand waving. Traditionally, air cooled meant lower BMEP potential, but lighter total powerplant weight, few parts so lower cost as well so there are gains to be had with the acceptance of lower BMEP. BMEP for those who don't recognize the term is Brake Mean Effective Pressure, it's a means of comparing engine output across differing designs without having to worry about displacement/liquid vs air/RPM where peak is made/etc. High BMEP is a sign of an engine that's operating efficiently and making solid power whatever it's design is. Re the 'just a quart around the exhaust valves' quip, if that's where they needed the cooling to be reliable with the tune they shipped, what's wrong with the design?

    Bikes mentioned in this thread:

    2020 HD Low Rider S - BMEP 157.4 PSI (V-Twin, 'semi' liquid cooled)
    2017 Yamaha Raider - BMEP 164.8 PSI (V-Twin, air cooled)
    2020 Honda Goldwing - BMEP 146 PSI (Boxer 6, liquid cooled)
    2018 KTM 790 - BMEP 196.9 PSI (Upright twin, liquid cooled)
    2020 Indian Scout Thunder - BMEP 157.4 PSI (V-Twin, liquid cooled)
    2020 Indian Chief Dark Horse - BMEP 161.7 PSI (V-Twin, liquid cooled)
    2007 Buell Ulysses - BMEP 172.6 PSI (V-Twin, air cooled)
    2005 Honda CRF70R - BMEP 106 PSI (Air cooled horizontal single)
    2020 HD Street Rod 750 - BMEP 157.5 PSI (V-Twin, liquid cooled)
    2020 HD Iron 883 - BMEP 150.8 PSI (V-Twin, air cooled)

    So, now we can compare more apples to apples and the Dyna's motor doesn't seem to be suffering too badly from the design choices HD made with it based on what they're pulling from it compared to this thread's choice of comparisons in the market.
    Why you gotta go and bring logic and science into these threads.............these are purely emotional items dammit

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  4. #79
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    Quote Originally Posted by klp View Post
    Sure they have a quart of coolant flowing around the exhaust valves but IMO that was done to keep your nuts from roasting. Their cooling setup on the big bikes is a hybrid air/oil/water, not a true water jacketed block.

    The current list of liquid cooled HD's in my mind includes the V Rod which the motor company didn't build and the Street 500 and 750 which are both hopeless POS's.
    *sigh*...you are correct in the fact that they are not fully liquid cooled but your opinion as to why is way off base. the reasoning was to allow HD to increase pressure and therefor increase HP without fear of burning a valve up. back when bikes were carb'd you could increase pressure and offset the temp increase by just dumping a bunch of fuel into the combustion chamber and use that to cool the exhaust valve. cant do that with a FI bike so something had to be done to both increase power output and appease the EPA gods.

    its clear that you get all your HD info from some HD hater facebook page because you just keep regurgitating the same misinformation that the uninformed have spewed over and over for decades. what are you gonna say next? they leak oil? time for some new material. while Porsche had some input in the Vrod motor, HD designed and built that motor. the street motors, while not exactly the epitome of engineering, they werent designed for seasoned riders, they were designed to be entry level bikes that get people into the brand but more importantly, it was a bike they could sell in the asian/middle eastern market where bikes arent typically over 500ccs.

    and before you say it...im not some HD fanboy. HD pays my bills, and it pretty much stops there. i LOVE motorcycles, of all kinds. im not brand loyal to anyone. my garage and my ownership history will prove that. i try to be informed because this shit actually interests me. its not some weekend hobby for me, so when someone comes around spouting opinion as fact (especially when its the same old garbage) im going to say something.

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
    01 SV650S (RC51 eater)/07 690SM /03 300EXC/14 XTZ1200
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  5. #80
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    H-D Pan America-3117d482-b4f8-478e-805c-43ca377681d3

    600 miles from new.

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  6. #81
    Posting Freak MUZ720's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    https://news.maxabout.com/bikes/kawa...-ninja-zx-usa/
    Looks like anything made by humans or robots can have problems!

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    Last edited by MUZ720; 12-28-19 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #82
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    Quote Originally Posted by klp View Post
    H-D Pan America-3117d482-b4f8-478e-805c-43ca377681d3

    600 miles from new.
    on a bike that literally gets crashed for a living.

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
    01 SV650S (RC51 eater)/07 690SM /03 300EXC/14 XTZ1200
    TRACKS:Firebird/NHMS/VIR/Calabogie/California Speedway/NJMP/MMC/NYST/Palmer/Thompson/Club Motorsports

  8. #83
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    Is that a leak, or oil overflow draining out of the airbox after a tipover while running?

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    771 Racing -=- FaceBook
    Mistake - 1992 WR250ZD / 2000 LS650P / 2019 KTM 150SX

  9. #84
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    Re: H-D Pan America

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post

    Now, back to the buzzwords comment, tossing around 'but liquid cooled' without why you want that particular feature, or consider it a perk or negative is just hand waving. Traditionally, air cooled meant lower BMEP potential, but lighter total powerplant weight, few parts so lower cost as well so there are gains to be had with the acceptance of lower BMEP. BMEP for those who don't recognize the term is Brake Mean Effective Pressure, it's a means of comparing engine output across differing designs without having to worry about displacement/liquid vs air/RPM where peak is made/etc. High BMEP is a sign of an engine that's operating efficiently and making solid power whatever it's design is. Re the 'just a quart around the exhaust valves' quip, if that's where they needed the cooling to be reliable with the tune they shipped, what's wrong with the design?
    Class dismissed!

    If BMEP is the metric HD is doing just fine.

    The Street seemed to be leaking from the countershaft seal.

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    Last edited by klp; 12-28-19 at 08:36 PM.

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