Pillion Passengers, Their Safety and Texas.

[Wanderer]

Not sure how many of you are aware, but there's been an attempt to regulate the carrying of pillion passengers in Texas, specifically for 'Sport Bikes'. While this has been shot down it appears, I thought it would be worth discussion - the attempted law was to enforce a 2 year minimum period of licencing for the rider before they take a pillion passenger.
(Or allowing a passenger with an MC endorsement to ride with a rider below that 2 year mark)

Now, I think the singling out of sport bikes is insane, but I do think this might have merit across the board. A newly licensed rider has enough to think about with his machine, let alone suddenly adding a passenger, which does impact handling and performance significantly.

Group pushing the law: http://firstladiesoftheroundtable.org/MaloriesLaw.aspx

(I'd avoid the facebook group - they are simply not open to constructive ideas or comment)

[snwbrdr435]

Light weight motorcycle(crotch rocket) probably same people pushing for high capacity "clip" bans

[Wanderer]

Right - I agree the step of limiting this kind of thing to certain types of motorcycles is nuts, but the limitation on passengers, I feel, may have merit.

[Rossco]

Wow, where do I begin?

Well for starters, their idea of what constitutes a sportbike is kinda ridiculous.

"One where the rider leans forward over the tank"

Um, I'm 6'2" I have to lean forward on alot of bikes. Even if it's a true sportbike, what happens if the rider alters the handlebars?

[slammp]

It almost makes sense - but should be an all bike requirement. No easier to handle a cruiser with someone on it if you have no experience.

[Kurlon]

Maine does not allow passengers while on a permit and I thought your first year of carrying the endorsement too... can't find the regs on it though.

[DucDave]

Limiting passengers on newly licensed motorcyle riders of all kinds is an idea worthy of consideration if there is data supporting the idea that newly licensed motorcyclists crash statistically more often with passengers than without. And statistically more often than experienced riders with passengers.

I have seen no data one way or another that suupports this but would assume the sponsors of the bill have...

[Wanderer]

I dont think they do - this is more of a reactionary proposition, but I'm not sure statistically. I would however say it is a distraction for a newly licensed rider to ride with a pillion - essentially it cannot be otherwise - it does without doubt alter the riding profile and behavior, which a new rider may well still be unfamiliar with.

[Pittenger5]

I bet its a kneejerk reaction to some dipshit killing some "innocent" passenger when riding like a douche. Nothing more.

[e30addict]

No way in hell did I want a passenger on the bike right after I started riding. I've been riding 5 years and I'm still sketchy when someone is on back.

[Wanderer]

The actual folks involved are moonbats for sure - they simply wont listen to any suggestions that they expend their efforts in more constructive ways, but I think the actual *idea* might have something.

[scottfromboston]

White girl of moderate attractiveness dies, moonbats go nuts. When in doubt, add more laws, right?

[ilikenapalm]

I bet its a kneejerk reaction to some dipshit killing some "innocent" passenger when riding like a douche. Nothing more.

Looks like its named after someone too.

[Wanderer]

The discussion I was trying to start, regardless of the targeting of sport riders or the law being named in memorial of a casualty - Do you think there should be restrictions on the carrying of pillion passengers?
Genuinely interested to hear what the riding community thinks - should a day 1 licensed rider carry a passenger? a year? two years?

[ilikenapalm]

Yes, 1 day licensed or 40 years licensed should be allowed to carry passengers.

You passed a state license exam that says you're competent to operate a motorcycle. Who says that having a license endorsement for x amount of time will actually make you a better rider? I understand that experience comes with miles, but is it the government's job to step in and say you can't do something? In my opinion, it is not. It is the responsibility of the rider to know he or she is taking another's life in his or her hands by carrying a passenger. With that said, the passenger must also understand the risks involved. We're supposedly a country that believes whole-heartedly in freedom, yet laws keep getting passed to infringe upon those freedoms.

[jwm2k3]

Yes, 1 day licensed or 40 years licensed should be allowed to carry passengers.

You passed a state license exam that says you're competent to operate a motorcycle. Who says that having a license endorsement for x amount of time will actually make you a better rider? I understand that experience comes with miles, but is it the government's job to step in and say you can't do something? In my opinion, it is not. It is the responsibility of the rider to know he or she is taking another's life in his or her hands by carrying a passenger. With that said, the passenger must also understand the risks involved. We're supposedly a country that believes whole-heartedly in freedom, yet laws keep getting passed to infringe upon those freedoms.

Infringe? Yep. But, honestly, after working in the retail motorcycle industry for a number of years I have seen WAY too many people who pass the state motorcycle exam (which in mass is a 20 question test on a computer) that have NO BUSINESS being on a 2 wheeled vehicle. Especially one with a high horsepower rating of at least 110hp (almost every 600cc bike has that amount). So, my opinion is that, yes, it should be up to the rider to determine if he or she is ready not only to take a passenger but also just to ride. But bad riding decisions are made daily by newbies...its just a FACT (drink)....so by making them wait a little while and 'hopefully' get some actuall miles under their belt they will become more competent. Just trying to show the other side...

[ilikenapalm]

Dude don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people with motorcycle licenses that absolutely should not have them. There were 2 women in my MSF course that passed and I can honestly say that I was afraid for their safety.

But the question isn't "Should the state have a more difficult license test?" Its "Should people with a license be allowed to carry a passenger?"

[Rossco]

A question for those that support pillion restrictions for the newly licensed:

Would you also favor restrictions on how much luggage can be carried on a bike? Two fully loaded saddlebags and a topcase can really affect the handling of a bike too you know...

[superbrew]

Maybe not a time limit, like 1 year, but a mileage limit. If you have two new riders, one may only ride 500 miles that first year, the other 10K. I am not sure how you would verify this, but it mileage is a better measure of expereince than time, imo.

Rossco, if the rider crashes with luggage the rider gets hurt, with a passenger they both get hurt.

[xrocket21]

I dont believ in laws that override common sense. I dont think putting this law in place would significantly change anything. There are good riders that have ridden less than 2 years and there are bad riders that have ridden 10 years.

What exactly is this supposed to accomplish?

Are we as people not qualified to make our own decisions?

[obsolete]

But the question isn't "Should the state have a more difficult license test?" Its "Should people with a license be allowed to carry a passenger?"

Yes and yes. The licensing for anything under a CDL in this country is a joke as well are our laws that involve moving violations.

[DucDave]

Again, if there is data to support the notion that new riders with a passenger is significantly more likely to have an accident then I would support a well thought out approach to reducing the risk.

For those concerned that the govt is regulating common sense, you are right. Because so many asshats have none. It's a slippery slope, but most European countrys are far more rigorous on what it takes to operate a high performance motorcycle. And, if you'd ever ridden in Europe you'd have to agree that, overall, the entire perspective on the sport is much, much different..for the better in my opinion...

The motorcyle proficiency test given here does not test for proficiency with a passenger. (Or luggage - but, luggage doesnt bang your helmet when you stop, blab away in your ear, lean the wrong way, or simply fall off (usually!) And, as a general rule, operators of motorcycles are not inclined to show off or try to impress their luggage!)

[e30addict]

If this were applied to all bikes it's similar to graduated licensing.

Rossco, luggage effects CG but it's easily replaced.

Not sure if I even like the idea, I do support personal responsibility. Sad thing is too few people have much of it.

It would be interesting to see some type of data behind it.

[ZRXDarryl]

I think this is a great idea, however to single out 1 particular type of bike is kneejerk idiocy. How many cruiser types (who may rarely if ever use their front brake) or any other niche-bike rider have you seen out there that shouldn't be riding alone never mind 2-up?

Maybe at the very least a 1 year "no passenger" rule - that doesn't seem very invasive to me. Mandatory training should also be considered for beginners.

Why this country has not adopted graduated licensing is beyond me.

When I was learning to ride in 1970, I don't think it was needed - now, with hyper-powerful bikes, and almost more importantly, F'N IDIOTS on the road driving cages like they're TRYING to kill us (some actually succeeding), I believe both mandatory training and graduated licensing should be looked at seriously, wherein riding with a passenger is addressed as well.

One other thing that just defies logic: lack of self-cancelling turn signals.

[ZX-12R]

The motorcyle proficiency test given here does not test for proficiency with a passenger.

Nor does it test for proficiency on 2 wheels since 3 wheeled vehicles (like the Can-Am Spyder) are classified the same as a real motorcycle.