Pillion Passengers, Their Safety and Texas.

[fjrrider RI]

I have been riding my whole life which is a long time and for the past three years have avoided passengers whereas before used to give lots of pillion rides. When a much heaver broad pulled my bike over from the rear while mounting that was the last straw. (hope u get a laught out of that one). Taught my gf to ride her own and no more passengers.

So riding two up as all agree requires more skill and is less manuverable! Laws suck as they only target the norm and who wants some cop arresting you for taking someone down the block for a ride? I want to be able to put someone on the back without a two up lisence added to my auto and motorcycle. Squids need to pass a mental test on their level of crazyness before risking a passengers life or be forced to ride a track day first.

[ranette]

Fair enough.

To put it simply, I support police officers protecting and serving the public. I don't support the government trying to protect us from ourselves.

Cool, let me know when the crack party at your house begins...oh, and can I bring my 6 year old? I'm his dad and I have no problem with him drinking, and don't worry, he's bringing a case of Bud with the money he earned working last week.

Seriously, I mean this not as a joke, and certainly not a dig, you should visit India. You can have a 300 foot cliff without so much as a warning sign. Most people use common sense and don't get near it, every now and then someone messes up. Would a sign have helped? Does something as simple as a Deer Crossing sign signify an overstep of our government trying to protect us from ourselves? Again, where is the line? As far as that poor Indian who took the header, what the hell, there are still a billion of them over there, who cares? Maybe we can aim to be as libertarian a society as India as they attempt to become more socially progressive like the West.

[SRTie4k]

Cool, let me know when the crack party at your house begins...oh, and can I bring my 6 year old? I'm his dad and I have no problem with him drinking, and don't worry, he's bringing a case of Bud with the money he earned working last week.

Seriously, I mean this not as a joke, and certainly not a dig, you should visit India. You can have a 300 foot cliff without so much as a warning sign. Most people use common sense and don't get near it, every now and then someone messes up. Would a sign have helped? Does something as simple as a Deer Crossing sign signify an overstep of our government trying to protect us from ourselves? Again, where is the line? As far as that poor Indian who took the header, what the hell, there are still a billion of them over there, who cares? Maybe we can aim to be as libertarian a society as India as they attempt to become more socially progressive like the West.

Way to represent the stereotypic Vermonter.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure he's not advocating for the "do whatever the hell you want" government policy. A warning sign is not the same as a law that restricts your rights as a citizen; they're two completely different areas entirely, so the comparison you're trying to make doesn't really apply.

[obsolete]

I'm never insulted, till I'm insulted.

[ilikenapalm]

You can have a 300 foot cliff without so much as a warning sign. Most people use common sense and don't get near it, every now and then someone messes up. Would a sign have helped? Does something as simple as a Deer Crossing sign signify an overstep of our government trying to protect us from ourselves? Again, where is the line? As far as that poor Indian who took the header, what the hell, there are still a billion of them over there, who cares? Maybe we can aim to be as libertarian a society as India as they attempt to become more socially progressive like the West.

I support the sign being there to warn people of the cliff. I do not support a law saying you can't descend the cliff.

[ranette]

Anyways, I'm pretty sure he's not advocating for the "do whatever the hell you want" government policy.

As for the sign, you're both right, bad logic on my part, yet there are some who even bristle at the suggestion that government should try to warn of us harmful behavior. For example, Michelle Obama being raked over the coals for daring to suggest that we should think about feeding our kids properly. No mention of a law at any time yet all we heard was keep your government out of my family(unless of course your family doesn't look or act like mine, then the government should regulate the hell out of yours). Was Laura Bush jumped on for suggesting it would be good for kids to read?

However, "allowing the government and law enforcement to step in and tell us what we can and can't do is not something I support." can only be interpreted as "do the hell whatever you want." What else could you take it for?

For the record, as I stated earlier in the thread, I disagree with this law. Personally, I'm an ATGATT or at least MTGATT kind of guy myself but don't even necessarily agree with mandatory helmet laws for adults mostly because I believe government has more important things to do than protect people who are not concerned with their own safety from themselves; I really think we agree on that. However to lump that in with the idea that any law, any government regulation, about what I can and cannot do is taking things to the absolute extreme. Some things need to be regulated, it's just a matter of where we draw that line.

[superbrew]

The government should protect me from you, not me from me. However, I feel that this is a gray area. I am sure not all riders and/or passengers fully understand the risks associated with riding a motorcycle with a passenger. I have never carried a passenger, and probably never will, because I don't want to be responsible for them. Perhaps it could be part of the MSF to teach about the changes and risks that come with adding a passenger to a motorcycle. It should be education, not limitation.

[ilikenapalm]

Just teach it in high school. Freshman year comes rolling around....

Guess what kids? Asphalt hurts.

You'd only need a one hour class to drive home the point.

[ZRXDarryl]

One big problem I've had over the years with passengers is almost every time I lift the front wheel I get this pain in the kidney area.

You just can't legislate that out of a 2-up ride.

[xrocket21]

Fair enough.

To put it simply, I support police officers protecting and serving the public. I don't support the government trying to protect us from ourselves.

[DucDave]

Just teach it in high school. Freshman year comes rolling around....

Guess what kids? Asphalt hurts.

You'd only need a one hour class to drive home the point.

I recall being 22 and believing that everyone was reasonable and would use common sense. (This, of course, in light of the fact that much of what I thought was common sense then I now see as sheer lunacy. I'm lucky as hell to even be alive. An inch here, half second there, you wouldn't be blessed with my voice and wisdom.)

With age comes experience...and, occaisionaly, thoughtful consideration.

Considering the issue thoughtfully, I believe that putting some restrictions on two up riding for all motorcycles is an idea worthy of consideration.

At 22 I would have felt it was a stupid law that maybe applied to others who lacked the awesome skill that I had...but certainly not to me.

[obsolete]

I recall being 22 and believing that everyone was reasonable and would use common sense. (This, of course, in light of the fact that much of what I thought was common sense then I now see as sheer lunacy. I'm lucky as hell to even be alive. An inch here, half second there, you wouldn't be blessed with my voice and wisdom.)

With age comes experience...and, occaisionaly, thoughtful consideration.

Considering the issue thoughtfully, I believe that putting some restrictions on two up riding for all motorcycles is an idea worthy of consideration.

At 22 I would have felt it was a stupid law that maybe applied to others who lacked the awesome skill that I had...but certainly not to me.

Now get off my lawn.