Question about online bike sale (protecting against fraud)

[benVFR]

Somewhat sad to say, I am selling my bike.

Not really too sad, as I haven't really rode much the last few years. I went from about 8-10k a year to about 1k a year somewhere around 3-4 years ago. Mostly due to having a wife.. and now she is pregnant.

Anyway.. I put my VFR up for sale, I have someone from all the way in Florida who has agreed to buy it for a pretty decent price considering I've never fixed it to look 100% again.

I've done this before, last time I accepted a cashier's check in full, waited for it to clear (though probably not long enough) and the buyer showed up (from Buffalo, NY) with a truck to pick up the bike maybe 4-5 days after I had deposited the check.

This guy seems legit, but this time the bike is going to have to be shipped. He is going to pay in full with a cashier's check from USAA.. the complication is he isn't going to ever see the bike until he's paid for it. So he's just as worried as I am about fraud. We've talked plenty on the phone, he's retired military so it is hard for me to expect him to be a fraudster.. just wondering what other steps I can take to keep this safe without being a total asshole.

What I am worried about is these supposed newer counterfeit Bank/Cashier's check fraud issues. Supposedly the check can be recalled well after it has "cleared" if fraud is uncovered. Since it's not a foreign bank I am hoping I can just call USAA and get them to independently verify the check? Otherwise it would seem ridiculous for me to hold the bike for weeks to be safe. The nearest USAA branch is at West Point so it kind of falls into the "far away" bank category.

Any thoughts?

Ben

[TheIglu]

Hi Ben!

[TheIglu]

BACK ON TOPIC!

I'd talk to the bank directly. They would know the best method to protect you and what sort of time frame would be required to assure the funds are legit.

Just explain to them the situation and your concerns.

[aldend123]

I thought a cashier's check was as good as money. They check the bank acc. for the money before issuing the check and put a hold on it when they issue (or something along those lines, I'm no banker). I would call the issuer AND your own bank and talk with them about what power they have after the check has cleared. I don't see how they can clear the check in your account, then turn around and declare it fraudulent and undo it.

Don't know what your final sale price is, but if you're still real concerned, can the guy should up with the the money in actual cash bills? Even $10k in hundreds is #100 of them.

Iglu beat me to it.

[TheIglu]

Cashiers check still needs to get processed. May look legit, they hand you money/deposit into your account, but a week later the numbers could not add up once it is processed through the banking system.

[rice_rocket]

Wirelessly posted

I'm a bit jaded on that...and supposed military guys, only because 10 years ago I did get burned by someone for a few k... He was also enlisted, and I made a little stink when the money somehow didnt go through in the bank a little over a month after it was cashed. Never got the money back, asked some of my military buddies to inquire and then got threatening emails from this person. In the end I never got my money, not sure what happened to the guy, but I took it as a lesson learned....cash only or local bank check..

[obsolete]

People use the military card as a way to gain initial trust. I've seen a few scams with that BS. Not to mention I've seen people burned by the false cashiers check.

[K13sman]

Talk him into taking a flight up here (you offer to pick him up at the airport), and riding the bike back. it's the best way for him to get to know a new purchase. Cashiers check have been used by Nigerian/other crooks for years. Take 3 weeks for the check to clear and call his bank yourself to check on the check.

[scubasteveRR]

IMHO people are people. doesn't make a damn of a difference if they served our country or not, i wouln'td trust anyone hands down!

how much is the bike selling for? take $100 bucks off the selling price and split the cost of a plane ticket for him to fly up.

it would be well worth the $100 to make sure and not lose a couple thousand in a bunk transaction

OR if he wont come up tell him you have to wait for the check to clear before you can ship and if he doesn't understand then I'm sure you could find another buyer

[rg500]

I used an escrow service when I bought my R7. I was the buyer so I wasn't concerned about the check clearing, but it was a lot of money for a bike I had never seen. The Escrow service held the money until the bike arrived and I inspected it and then I contacted them and released the funds. It worked out well for me. I don't remember the name of the company but maybe something like that would work for you. Good Luck

[dontpanic]

Be careful with both treasurer's checks / bank checks and money orders. I haven't been on the retail side of banking for nearly fifteen years, but treasurer's checks can be counterfeited. That, I think, is where the real risk lies.

[aldend123]

Be careful with both treasurer's checks / bank checks and money orders. I haven't been on the retail side of banking for nearly fifteen years, but treasurer's checks can be counterfeited. That, I think, is where the real risk lies.

Lets pretend he receives a counterfeit and he puts it in his account. Once it clears and is in his account, would there ever be a scenario where the bank would suddenly say "oh wait, nevermind, it was fake" and take the money back?

[benVFR]

Lets pretend he receives a counterfeit and he puts it in his account. Once it clears and is in his account, would there ever be a scenario where the bank would suddenly say "oh wait, nevermind, it was fake" and take the money back?

The scenario where you can get burned is this:

- Counterfeit check is written
- Your bank credits your account while the check is cleared
- Check is found to be counterfeit
- Your bank debits your account
- If you spent the money and shipped goods you are screwed

His bank called me & then called him into a conference call. If he is not legit he is pretty good to spoof USAA's customer service line, and they were addressing him as Colonel.. His address, etc.. also all checks out. The bank rep told me they were fedexing the check overnight direct from the bank, I will call the bank back tomorrow to verify the check, at that point I am not going to worry a whole lot as I think my chances of a counterfeit check when the issuing bank has told me it's OK is very low.

Talking to my bank it sounds like it is 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.. the other thing I could have done was given him a routing # and account # and requested he wire me money. That is pretty safe other then that you've leaked a good deal of identifying information.. but any time you write a personal check you give that information out anyway.

Next question.. easiest way to drain the gas tank for shipping? It is apparently required.. and taking the gas tank off this bike is a PITA...

[Mike Qube]

Lets pretend he receives a counterfeit and he puts it in his account. Once it clears and is in his account, would there ever be a scenario where the bank would suddenly say "oh wait, nevermind, it was fake" and take the money back?

Yes. It happens all the time with the nigerian scammers. They send the fake check, but it has real routing numbers so that part gets entered into the system. They will put them money into your account, but when it goes through the system and come back as fraudulent, the money gets pulled.

[OreoGaborio]

Well whatever you do, don't do it like this guy.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/gen...ould-i-do.html

Cliff's:
Long distance buyer sends money, everything clears, they do all the paperwork and he sends it off to the buyer (first mistake)
Seller spends the money on another bike (second mistake)
Buyer shows up to pick up the bike decides not to go through with it
Seller says "uh... okay I'm gonna have to pay you back over the next couple of months" (NO!!! Three strikes you're out )

[aldend123]

Yes. It happens all the time with the nigerian scammers. They send the fake check, but it has real routing numbers so that part gets entered into the system. They will put them money into your account, but when it goes through the system and come back as fraudulent, the money gets pulled.

I'm very aware of that situation with regular checks, but what is the point of a cashier's check? Shouldn't it have better security measures?

Interesting:
http://www.aba.com/abaef/cashierscheckfraud.htm

The American Bankers Association offers the following tips to protect consumers from cashier's check and "advance fee" fraud schemes:

Beware if the buyer or seller asks you to send money quickly. Banks often take 10 days or more to determine if a cashier's check is counterfeit. Do not ship the goods or spend any of the funds sent to you until 10 days to two weeks after you deposit the cashier's check.

Insist on a cashier's check drawn on a local bank, or a bank that has a local branch. Insist on a cashier's check for the exact amount.

Check the FDIC's Institution Directory to make sure the bank is legitimate.

[slammp]

I'm very aware of that situation with regular checks, but what is the point of a cashier's check? Shouldn't it have better security measures?

Interesting:
http://www.aba.com/abaef/cashierscheckfraud.htm

Ben just make sure that the bank that called you into that conference call was really the bank and not his girlfriend/buddy just running interference.

[Mike Qube]

I would definitely call the bank, not just on the conference call. I would look up their website and find the customer service number to try and verify the check.

[benVFR]

LOL. It's been 11 years. I'm going to Zombie bump this from hell.

I can't believe I never responded with what happened. This was all kind of a funny story and I can't believe I never posted here to finish it. Perhaps I was dealing with the pain of going motorcycle-less? Or freaking out about my son arriving? But it seems dumb this was my last post and I just ghosted NESR.

There is a guy where I work now who has an ancient beat up SV and it made me nostalgic and think of this place. I have lurked every so often but never posted again.

So I did sell my VFR to the retired Colonel down in Florida. He was fine. But we did have a SNAFU where a 2nd bank check had to be delivered and the first canceled. Because Fed Ex delivered the bank check he sent to an office building down the street from me. The check required a signature and verification and yet Fed Ex somehow let a random person sign for it, or the courier just faked the signature to leave it at a random office.

I had a lot of random weird tools including some ridiculous 36" long screw drivers that were required to get the throttle bodies off the VFR. I ended up sending a big box of random stuff with the bike cause I figured I'd never need it again.

I still have my MC license but haven't been riding again. I have still been biking a lot and still have 3 nice bicycles.

Traffic is SO bad where I live now it has kept me from jonesing for a motorcycle again. I rode my bicycle to work this morning and it would have probably taken me longer to ride a motorcycle due to gearing up.

My kid is 10, he thinks cars are cool now. I need to take him to some kind of motorcycle event at some point to set him straight, even though it would break my wife's heart.

[OreoGaborio]

holy crap, it's benvfr

Welcome back, dude. Pop by a TTD or NEMRR (formerly LRRS) event or something. Chances are I'll be there.

[benVFR]

If Lowell bike night is still going that might be a better option. Boys night out some time when Mom is traveling for work. Loudon is hard to get to these days, but any time we go up to NH (we get season's passes at Ragged Mtn) and I go past that exit it always makes me remember.

Most of the time everything is insanely busy.. too busy to even miss riding. If I can get time to exercise and play my guitar for a bit it's a good day.

Probably the only way I'm getting on something powered again is if I get a "high powered electric bike" that's really a slow motorcycle. Nobody in the family who hates motorcycles and never rode one and yet knows way more about them than anyone who did/does ride has been able to grasp that eBikes are just motorcycles. I hate that about eBikes but if it stealth let me have a bike with a motor...

[OreoGaborio]

Nah, Lowell went kaput during Covid. Massive doubts if it'll ever come back.

Get yourself a SurRon Ultra Bee or something and disappear in the woods