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in a real jam

  1. #1
    I Dance With Will
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    Unhappy in a real jam

    im in a real jam and need some of your help.

    i bought a bike last Oct. with a guy name Michael Chaves in RI. paid him in full and he was suppose to pay off his bank and sent me the title within 2 weeks. so with his permission i rode the bike back with his plate. well it's the end of March and no title and still riding around with his plate. every time i called he tells me that he's still waiting to hear from the bank because they screwed up. i don't believe him, but dont know what to do. i was thinking if some of you could ride to RI with me after the motomarket meet next Saturday to give him hell. we could ride throu the new liberty tunnel after that. what do you say huh?

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  2. #2
    ultrabuddy twrayinma's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    did you get a bill of sale from him?

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  3. #3
    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    It's illegal to transfer possession of a vehicle with any type of lean on it (his bank) You should have filed a report at the DMV after your first request for the title. After 6 months, you'll both probably end up paying some sort of pennalties?
    Riding to his house with a group of people aint gonna get you your title as he obviously doesn't have it.
    What part of Rhode Island and do you know the dealer it was bought from by this person?

    That's a sucky situation ( i remember hearing about it at the VBC last weekend) and wish you luck getting it taken care of.

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  4. #4
    I Dance With Will
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    in a real jam

    have a sales letter from him that's about it. he's in Pawtucket actually. own an auto lighting business on Mendon Ave. hids4less.com

    man this sucks.

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  5. #5
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    in a real jam

    How much did you pay for the bike? Did you write the check out to him or his bank?

    The proper procedure is to write a chack out to his lein holder for the amount he owes, then write a check to him for the remainder or write a check out to the leinholder AND him, then he gets the leinholder to write him a check for any excess.

    IF you didn't write a check to the leinholder, the chances are that he hasn't paid the leinholder and has spent the money.

    I would write him a letter or email stating that in your opinion he may have comitted interstate fraud and you are thinking of contacting the FBI about it. That usually works.

    BTW, you are taking a big risk if you are riding around on his plate still. Are you even insured on this bike yet?

    Derek

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  6. #6
    Super Moderator beet's Avatar
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    your talking miss use of plates min.

    Originally posted by Degsy
    How much did you pay for the bike? Did you write the check out to him or his bank?

    The proper procedure is to write a chack out to his lein holder for the amount he owes, then write a check to him for the remainder or write a check out to the leinholder AND him, then he gets the leinholder to write him a check for any excess.

    IF you didn't write a check to the leinholder, the chances are that he hasn't paid the leinholder and has spent the money.

    I would write him a letter or email stating that in your opinion he may have comitted interstate fraud and you are thinking of contacting the FBI about it. That usually works.

    BTW, you are taking a big risk if you are riding around on his plate still. Are you even insured on this bike yet?

    Derek
    BTW, you are taking a big risk if you are riding around on his plate still. Are you even insured on this bike yet?
    your talking inpound if they catch ya , 2
    sorry khamster 2 have 2 tell ya
    could have a prick cop!!!! end up in jail for the night ..

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  7. #7
    I Dance With Will
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    in a real jam

    he charge me to his business and gave him some cash. didn't know what i was thinking. i was taken in too easily.
    he said the plate is still good till June, at least on the plate sticker, but dont know how much of a risk other than insurance not paying for damages. will be picking up the registration paper with him next week and will try to return the bike if i can.

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  8. #8
    Member ShredHed's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    Definitely get in touch with him ASAP and give him an ultimatum at which you will take legal action. Try not to specify which(unless you have the facts), but have an idea of what choices you have. You've already been far too patient with this guy. Don't let on to any authority that you've been operating the bike since purchase(although if they look at odometer it won't be hard to tell), it sounds like it's not street legal until you register plates under your name & insurance.

    Showing up with a crowd to demand the title or escort him to his bank to figure out what is going on is another option. BUT, if you're going to do that your insinuating (sp?) physical force, which you'd better be willing to use to the fullest if you're going that route, otherwise you lose credibility and look pretty silly, not to mention just wasting your time. Of course, if you do go that route and beat the tar out of him or scare him up a bit, do you have a way to avoid legal action if he goes to authorities? Who are his henchmen? Do you have a weapon to match his in case he feels threatened and takes action out of fear? Are you willing to use that weapon? As you can see, this type of thing can turn what intentionally is just a way to get his attention into something that could get pretty complicated and ugly, and still without title.

    As Derek said, if he had possession of the title he'd already have given it to you. It's of no value to him. Do you have legitimate details of the banks "screw up"? Bill of Sale is key, do you have it?
    How about your original check or something that represents payment to his name?

    Bottom line is you want a legal bike so go the legal route. Use 'em, this is an instance where paying taxes may benefit you.
    Find out what attorney's/small-claims can do for you for an interstate issue. Just be carefull of them lawyers...

    Good luck and keep us posted,
    -Jack

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  9. #9
    Member ShredHed's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    Originally posted by Kham
    he charge me to his business and gave him some cash. didn't know what i was thinking. i was taken in too easily.
    he said the plate is still good till June, at least on the plate sticker, but dont know how much of a risk other than insurance not paying for damages. will be picking up the registration paper with him next week and will try to return the bike if i can.
    Be very carefull if you're returning the bike. If this guys grifting you, you could lose the bike AND your money.

    Do you have a Bill of Sale or anything to PROVE you've exchanged money for the bike (identified by VIN number)? If not, he could easily report it as stolen and then your in a pickle. I'm not trying to frighten you, I don't know many facts of this situation, but I do know there are folks who will do some real nasty stuff while appearing pretty friendly and honest...

    Gotta be careful, man.

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  10. #10
    Lifer
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    in a real jam

    I would talk to a lawyer... whether or not you actually retain the lawyer's services to take care of this, they would be the right person to ask for advice.

    I think, as someone else mentioned, that you should have written the check to both him and his lienholder, and/or a letter to the lienholder about the situation. At the very least he wouldn't have been able to cash your check without explaining the situation to the bank. When I dumped my bike the insurance did some funky thing where the check went to the lienholder for approval and then straight to the dealership where I had promised to get the work done. That way I couldn't have pulled a fast one like this guy did.

    Good luck,
    Ben

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  11. #11
    I Dance With Will
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    in a real jam

    yea i have a sales letter that includes the amount and VIN#.

    i dont mean to physical threaten him. he seems real nice and sincere which is why i don't know how to push it. im no good at this. no choice but to deal with it and learn my lesson.

    hopefully i get this resolve soon and will be thinking about that blue 6R i saw the other day with 0.0% rate.

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  12. #12
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    in a real jam

    Ok, if you charged it to his business and gave him some cash AND you haven't paid the credit card off yet, the bike belongs to the credit card company. Tell them to reverse the charge as you aren't willing to pay for it. Show them the evidence and they SHOULD help you out.

    derek

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Pearldog's Avatar
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    I would suggest...

    not riding the bike until this is resolved. Why??

    If I understand your situation..the tags are his, the registration is his and the insurance is his-right. For all you know he reported the bike stolen. Make a copy of the Bill of Sale and keep it with the bike. You must also get a front and back copy of the signed/cashed check

    Also-If anything happens to you, the bike or for that matter someone else, you will end up getting screwed either by his insurance, the police, another party's insurance company or lawyer. Can you afford this???

    As I see the facts-you have all the liability-this is assuming that you do not have any insurance, etc.

    Try to figure out where he got the bike and try to contact the lienholder.

    I hate to say it but it is not if you get caught but when...

    I would strongly urge you to contact a lawyer that is a member of preferably both the MA and RI Bar associations-that way you have the venue/state laws issues covered-

    PD
    ____
    edited:

    OK-I see that some of the facts are more clear, nonetheless...you have no idea what coverage if any this guy has for other riders,etc.-at a minimum-his insurance company will come after you for any losses-be smart...be careful

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  14. #14
    Lifer Quigs's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    ^^ What these guys said.

    No insurance on a bike with a lien on it = You riding around on an unregistered, uninsured bike. Get bagged, and it's points on your license and hefty fines, regardless of the financial aspect of it. Try telling one of the $6 an hour DMV people this story to get the 4 points off your license if you get caught, and you'll have a really hard time.

    Sorry to hear all of this bro. Getting a new bike, especially one as nice as yours, is supposed to be a fun time.

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  15. #15
    I Dance With Will
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    in a real jam

    Originally posted by CQ7String
    ^^ What these guys said.

    No insurance on a bike with a lien on it = You riding around on an unregistered, uninsured bike. Get bagged, and it's points on your license and hefty fines, regardless of the financial aspect of it. Try telling one of the $6 an hour DMV people this story to get the 4 points off your license if you get caught, and you'll have a really hard time.

    Sorry to hear all of this bro. Getting a new bike, especially one as nice as yours, is supposed to be a fun time.
    is it different with bike then car? i just realized car insurance change too that use to be you can hand your buddy a key and he goes. now they make you sign a form to include or exclude additional drivers and the rate applies to the driver with higher points.

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  16. #16
    I Dance With Will
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    Re: I would suggest...

    Originally posted by Pearldog
    not riding the bike until this is resolved. Why??

    If I understand your situation..the tags are his, the registration is his and the insurance is his-right. For all you know he reported the bike stolen. Make a copy of the Bill of Sale and keep it with the bike. You must also get a front and back copy of the signed/cashed check

    Also-If anything happens to you, the bike or for that matter someone else, you will end up getting screwed either by his insurance, the police, another party's insurance company or lawyer. Can you afford this???

    As I see the facts-you have all the liability-this is assuming that you do not have any insurance, etc.

    Try to figure out where he got the bike and try to contact the lienholder.

    I hate to say it but it is not if you get caught but when...

    I would strongly urge you to contact a lawyer that is a member of preferably both the MA and RI Bar associations-that way you have the venue/state laws issues covered-

    PD
    ____
    edited:

    OK-I see that some of the facts are more clear, nonetheless...you have no idea what coverage if any this guy has for other riders,etc.-at a minimum-his insurance company will come after you for any losses-be smart...be careful
    in the beginning wouldn't it be like handing a key to someone for a test ride as far as insurance coverage? i know as time gets stretch longer there are no excuse so yea i got scared and i wont ride any more. maybe to his place this weekend and back.

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  17. #17
    Senior Member Pearldog's Avatar
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    Insurance??

    Kham-

    Not all personal moto insurance policies allow for others to ride the bike.. even for a test ride. Do you have a copy of his insurance policy? Do you know what he is covered for? If anything happens to you and there are damages involved, especially involving a third party, you are the one that is SOL. Probably 1 of 2 things would happen...

    1. His insurance company will pay the appropriate bills and then sue you.

    2. His insurance company will void his policy for breach of the terms. He will have to pay any claims and then he will sue you.

    Add to the above all of the hassles you will have with the DMV.

    Private sales are very different than buying from a dealer. A dealer typically has a policy that allows for test rides,etc. and even then not all dealers allow for test rides b/c of liability issues-

    Believe me when I say that you do not want to appear in the local district court waiting to see the judge b/c you were pulled over by a PO-if you are lucky your case may be heard sometime between 9-12. In most cases, those hours are used for minor violations-however you could be there all day if there is a filled docket.

    BTW-have you looked in the storage space for his registration? That would probably list the lienholder and/or the insurance company. If you find that information-send him a very nice certified letter that states you will contact both the bank and the insurance company to resolve this issue. You run the risk of the lienholder repossessing the bike but you should not be riding it-


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  18. #18
    Member ShredHed's Avatar
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    Re: Re: I would suggest...

    Originally posted by Kham
    i know as time gets stretch longer there are no excuse so yea i got scared and i wont ride any more. maybe to his place this weekend and back.
    Is this situation for the CBR-600 you bought last year(Sep/Oct, I believe)?
    If this guy is genuine and everything was cool, then the most you could probably have gotten away with is about a week from the date of sale. You get a ticket now and your insurance will scream up for six years. Them DMV folks won't budge, I've tried it for very minor infractions. This isn't minor and will be a significant fine and points.

    Murphy's law does exist; this is the kind of time that Johnny Law decides to pull you over for general purpose and asks for your registration, even when you've used blinkers, stopped at signs, and drove within speed limit. Be carefull. Best not to ride at all.

    And regardless of what you think of the seller, I strongly suggest you don't bring that bike with you when you meet him.

    What to do now? If it was me I'd get a hold of this guy and take the straight-up approach and get the situation out of him. Maybe he is legitimate and honest, but fucked up and spent the money before he could pay the leinholder off. If that's the case, work with him to find out what he's going to do to pay them off and when. The bike is awesome and you want to keep it, but need to ride it legally. Give him a deadline with specific goals along the way(and make sure it's reasonable for you, don't get strung out any further). If he misses a goal, take immediate legal action. If he doesn't cooperate from the start, take immediate legal action. Doesn't matter if he's a nice guy, unless he's a stand-up guy he's useless to deal with and you're wasting time listening to him.

    Real sorry it turned out this way for ya, Kham. Hopefully it'll work out. BTW, even though some folks are out riding here and there, you're not missing out much; there's still plenty of sand everywhere. Hopefully you finish this up and have a legal bike before the season!

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  19. #19
    ultrabuddy twrayinma's Avatar
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    in a real jam

    lemme chime in with everyone else...
    1) don't ride the bike 'til this is settled.
    2) talk to someone who knows property/vehicle law.
    3) act as if this guy's trying to scam you, but be polite. he could just be stupid and well meaning, but you can't afford to take the chance.

    good luck, man.

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