Looking for reccomendations on a first bike.

[Doc]

I have a friend who wants to get into motorcycling.

He wants a newer "cool looking, fast bike" "Like the guys on TV race" so he can "pick up the hotties" I am not making this up.

He has a little experience in the dirt (not as much as he thinks he has) and REALLY wants a full fairing sportbike. 600cc at a minimum but he hasn't ruled out a 1000. "I can handle it, I am mature"

I have tried to talk him out of it without any luck. I am getting him into the BRC class, although he doesn't think he needs it (he doesn't want to be looked at as someone who doesn't know how to ride) and I am gonna have to work to make sure he does take it.

So... I have a couple questions for the group.

1. If you bought a 600cc or 1000cc Full fairing sportbike as your first streetbike why did you go that route? (I want honesty here)
Did you think you could "handle" it? Did anyone try to talk you out of it? Why not just go with a 500? Not "cool" enough? Did you want the "bling"?

I mean a bike is a bike. Even the 500 will go faster than a car... I just don't get it.

2. What should I say/do to change the kids mind?

Now before you go and say it is not my worrry or "there is nothing you can do" I am not ready to give up on the kid. If I can mentor someone and get them to make a more reasonable choice I will.


More questions to come I am sure.

[naked-daytrader]

Tell him to buy an ex 250, paint it pink and join the Army as a nurse....




Seriously, if he's as headstrong as most newbie moto riders then forget it, you already lost him...

[senecak19]

Tough situation.

My first bike was CBR600RR. My experience began the day I rode it home from the dealership (honest). While I realized I was buying a bike way over my head, I played it smart. Took it REAL easy going through my learning curve. No squid sh**. Always and still always wear my gear.

The problems arise when you run into things such as:
- you think your invisible and can do anything
- peer pressure gets the better of you
- you dress to impress not to protect
- you use the streets as your training ground for your debute in AMA racing
- etc, etc. etc.

Despite all of my precaution, I still managed to find myself in sticky situations. I parked the bike until I completed MSF. Thank god. Wasn't more than a few weeks later, I was cruising down some back roads when some @ss hat decides he's going to cut me off. Had it not been for the course my experience level probably wouldn't have stopped me in time. Had another close call coming home one night... took a corner too quickly, hit a small patch of sand and came as close as you come to parking the bike underneath a guard rail.

I guess everyones different. We can give people all the speeches we want, but if they don't accept their skills for what their worth, there's nothing we can do about it.

[old timer]

Show him some video off of youtube of motorcycle crashes and the injuries they inflict...not to mention deaths...

Be a good friend and keep talking about taking motorcycle riding courses...take one with him if it will help...

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Let him get what he wants and ride with him and show him the way, Teach him some Safety skills, You cant change his mind of what he wants, but you could have an impact on how he rides it.

[Pittenger5]

I bought a 2004 636 as my first bike, never so much ever sat on a bike. I wanted a green ninja. The 500s just look pussy. People at the dealer told me I was crazy, but didnt really try to talk to me out of it. Didnt so much as take the MSF first (in hindsight I would've done that at the least)
Nothing you say will change his mind. At the least get him into the MSF and hope for the best.

Oh, and Doc, I mean this in a good way, youre a safety Nazi. I wish when I started someone had told me the merits of proper gear, I bought a good helmet but rode in jeans, sneakers, no gloves, no jacket for a while. Tell him about gear BUT DO NOT LECTURE HIM.
I was telling Dave this at VIR, I'm all for trying to get people to wear gear, but the reason you and Dave get the rep is you guys tend to drag it out for pages and pages, a lot of people tend to tune that out. So at the least try and teach him the merits of gear, point out cheap places to get gear (newenough and stuff) Point out the Icon stuff, hey it looks cool, but try not to lecture TOO much.

[jmh992003]

I had a lot of experince on dirtbikes and treet bikes before I bought my first steet bike. I had been on everything from harlesy, american iron horse, big dogs, cbr 929, rc51, and I chose a 2004 daytona 600. I wanted an inline 4, the daytona was slightly underpower compared to cbrs, gsxrs, r6's and zx636. The reaosn the first bike I woned was a 600 full fairing is because I wanted something I could have a long time and enjoy, and I knew it wasnt crazy as it was underpowerd. Wel the sucker I am got an awesome deal... on a left over gsxr 1000 the next year, and bought that. ONly reaosn I bought the litre bike was I wanted more low end torque for when driving slower, since all my buddies had harleys at the time. If I had to do it over again I would have bought a 750... which for me would have been the pefect combination of low end and handleing... But I do love my 1000, im just not your typical buy a 1000 go wfo all the time etc... Triumph daytona 600 is a great first bike though, a little under powerd for a 600, still looks cool, but I found it to be a little tall for me, since im only 5'8'

[Doc]

Tell him to buy an ex 250, paint it pink and join the Army as a nurse....

1st... I joined the Army as a Medic. An infantry medic, the nurse part came later. :

2nd.. You don't know how true the "pink 250" is. See my other recent thread.

[RyanNicholson]

My first bike is my current race bike....2006 R6s.

I bought it because I was somewhat of an idiot, and the sales person said it was a mighty fine starter bike. I wanted a 600 because it was the smaller of the "super sport" bikes that I liked so much. I had a friend that has had like 3 R1's so I was more familiar with yamaha....thus how I ended up in that direction.

I was a jackass on it for about a month....then I think I had a pretty close call and decided to mellow out. I had barely any experience in the dirt or on the street. I'm lucky to be alive I suppose.

Anyway, if hes super insistent....it really can be done....just mentor him on the bike. he will realize what its capable of. I wish I had some better guidence when I first started riding.

[nt650hawk]

Poppa Doc.

Your kid is not even born and he/she already wants a 1000.

Inline 600 and they will never grow out of it. I thought that when I first got my ZX 600 (just add 350cc to this picture)

then upgraded to the 929. Now I am wishing I just stuck with 600. But I always wanted a CBR 900. Maybe a sport tour is in my future.

Start small then grow.

650 Twin maybe but then show them the track and they will find it is enough.

Talk the squid out of him.

Admit it. No one is ever mature once you've been bitten. You've got to figure out what this puppy's got.

[Doc]

The 500s just look pussy.

That is VERY honest.

Oh, and Doc, I mean this in a good way, youre a safety Nazi. I wish when I started someone had told me the merits of proper gear, I bought a good helmet but rode in jeans, sneakers, no gloves, no jacket for a while. Tell him about gear BUT DO NOT LECTURE HIM.
I was telling Dave this at VIR, I'm all for trying to get people to wear gear, but the reason you and Dave get the rep is you guys tend to drag it out for pages and pages, a lot of people tend to tune that out. So at the least try and teach him the merits of gear, point out cheap places to get gear (newenough and stuff) Point out the Icon stuff, hey it looks cool, but try not to lecture TOO much.

I know I certainly come across that way on the forum. It is difficult to express the way I approach people in person over the web... I wore a t-shirt and jeans, no gloves and sneakers when I first started riding and tried to learn how to wheelie as soon as I had a bike with enough power.

I agree that mentoring is better than lecturing. The guy already looks up to me because I am a "racer" so I am pretty sure I can get him into some gear. The riding with him is doable as well. Luckily I can order him to take the MSF as well.

[Pittenger5]

Well you know I love my EX, but lets be honest they just dont look cool compared to the 600s. Thats why I was all for redesigning the 250s to look cooler. I doubt it would work convincing him to get one of those, but at least its a start by the manufacturers.

[akira700]

I bought a 95 F3 in 2001.
I found it fine to learn on. I rode as teenager though on
an old Dual Purpose Honda.

Is the person big? Are they set up 600ccs?
I think 600 ccs is fine to start with. Someone
who is gonna kill themself can also do it on a
500 too.

Why not the R6S ? Its not the racer replica, cheaper then the R6
with more mid range punch less top end.
But still looks cool.

[Doc]

It is the "looks cool" I can't get my head around... I mean are people that vain?

[DucDave]

....experience is what you get right after you could have really used it....

so, given that most people don't appreciate our trying to pass on our experience, let him do what he wants and get his experience on his own...

fuggit...done trying to help

[nt650hawk]

Hell yea and the $ thing as well.

Not a chance in hell I would have bought anything bigger than a 600 for a fires bike. A buddy let me try out his night hawk 650 and I had a blast on that until the + cable grounded out and I had to push it back for 2 miles.



With the Ninja, It was until I started leaving black strips on turns that I felt I need to get a better handeling bike that did not have a 130 rear tire. I had that bike for 5 years.

[RyanNicholson]

It is the "looks cool" I can't get my head around... I mean are people that vain?

I couldn't justify spending that much money on something i didn't think looked cool....call me vain but thats a lot of cash for a young guy, it was my first "big" purchase. Safety wasn't really a factor in my decision haha.

As for the R6S....thats what I use for a race bike, its fun to beat the new gen R6's on it I wouldn't put it in any lower class than any other 600 I4....anybody new rider wouldn't even know the power/handling difference between the two. Bone stock (only SS lines, 520 kit, and revalved forks) I'm running consistent 1:16's at NHMS on it.

[markbvt]

Try to talk him into an SV650 or Ninja 650 instead. Stress how these bikes are a lot more flexible for street riding than a 600 race replica, and can actually outperform the 600s on a twisty road/track due to their greater low-end grunt.

Mention to him that even experienced riders who've taken the MSF course before always learn something new if they take it again, and a lot of experienced riders actually take it every few years just to brush up on their skills.

I've got a couple friends who bought 600-class sportbikes as their first bikes, but they'd both ridden before, just hadn't owned their own bikes. One of them got a CBR600RR, babied it during break-in, and eventually realised he'd rather have a Ducati Monster or something and sold it (there's a girlfriend involved in there too). He hasn't gotten a new bike yet, but is still thinking that he'll get a Monster or Speed Triple or some other naked bike. My other friend got a Daytona 675, babied it during break-in, and rides very cautiously.

Both of these guys knew going into it that a 600-class bike could easily kill them, and they respected it accordingly. What's more, they both realised they were beginner riders, regardless of minor past experience. Sounds to me like your friend does not have the same level of respect for the machine or the same realistic view of his own abilities, which in my opinion is a recipe for disaster.

Convenient that you can order him to take the MSF. They ought to be able to help knock a little sense into him.

--mark

[NEWTREADS]

Older f3 or f4? Go for an f4i. Thats what I did. Just ride within ability. Yes easier said than done, but I'd rather try and control myself than upgrade to a new bike every 3 months. Its not always what you are riding but how you ride it. Im sure if I put my mind to it i could go out and wreck myself on a scooter just I could on a Busa. Well ok maybe not as easily. Your buddy wont get the bike and be posting on here a week later looking for the best gear ratio to wheelie it in 4th gear will he?

[tom3040]

I started out on my gsx-r600. I had some dirt experience but not much and I had ridden a friend of my fathers cruiser once or twice. So I thought I would be able to handle it and I was right I can. I have had no problems at all, but this doesn't mean that everybody can do what I and some others have. Tell him to look at the 08 SV650s they now come fully faired, and is probaly better for a first bike then an I4(alot better). Be realistic though he will not be talked into getting the ninja 250 no matter how sweet they look. Also tell him to look into a pre 2001 600 that would probaly be fine.

[Doc]

Older f3 or f4? Go for an f4i. Thats what I did. Just ride within ability. Yes easier said than done, but I'd rather try and control myself than upgrade to a new bike every 3 months. Its not always what you are riding but how you ride it. Im sure if I put my mind to it i could go out and wreck myself on a scooter just I could on a Busa. Well ok maybe not as easily. Your buddy wont get the bike and be posting on here a week later looking for the best gear ratio to wheelie it in 4th gear will he?

See... again I don't get it...

I have this story about a guy whose 916 was in the shop. He borrowed his wife's Ninja 250 and came riding with us (600/750/1000 sportbikes) He rode the wheels of that thing and put us all to shame!

"I would rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow."

A new bike every 3 months? Do you really get that good that quickly or do you just want a new bike for the "bling" factor? I mean honestly?

I can understand wanting to look cool. BUT, I think someone on a lesser bike kicking your ass in the twisties speaks VOLUMES of the RIDER not the POSER.

(Generalization not directed at anyone)

[Pittenger5]

fuggit...done trying to help

I didnt mean that as a knock to either you or Doc, so dont take it that way. I just personally see a line between preaching and informing, and you both seem to cross into the preaching territory a lot, in my opinion that means nothing. Both of you are COMPLETELY different in person than offline, so I hope more people dont make that mistake.
Im all for like I said point out gear that LOOKS cool and telling him why it should be worn, but if he doesnt listen trying to beat it into their heads just doesnt work in my opinion, and unfortunatly some people need to learn by experience. I was forced to learn from experience cause no one ever even SUGGESTED I wear gear until I found out firsthand why its important.

[Doc]

I guess some of it may be with up bringing.

I raced motocross as a tyke. KDX 80. I think I knew that I didn't need a big motored bike because of that... It was also instilled in me by my father that gear was important... that and reading and listening to what the guys in Cycle World and Motorcyclist say. I figured they must know what they are talking about and I should listen to them.

For those that don't listen... I have no pity.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

I guess some of it may be with up bringing.

I raced motocross as a tyke. KDX 80. I think I knew that I didn't need a big motored bike because of that... It was also instilled in me by my father that gear was important... that and reading and listening to what the guys in Cycle World and Motorcyclist say. I figured they must know what they are talking about and I should listen to them.

For those that don't listen... I have no pity.

It seems gear i Really important to those who have needed it it the past, Like Duc Dave said about expierence. I wear my Gear When I know I am riding like i need gear. I live in the city And do some posing with my friends, I live 1.5 miles from Newbury street some Hot nights I roll without a jacket but I ride like I have no jacket and take lessor traveled roads. If we decide to do a ride First stop is my house to put on some gear, Leather, boots and draggin Jeans.

[NEWTREADS]

Well I guess not everyone outgrows a bike in a few months. I have been getting in about 10k a year. If I started on a moped or a scooter Id of been bored in so time. Granted alot of people on here and commuters, tours etc get tons of seat time too, but it worked for me. Hell not like the f4i is the greatest thing ever, but I probably wouldnt have gotten into riding as much if I had a bike didnt like or was bored with or whatever.