Very first riding impressions of my new GSXR 750 K1... have a question though...

[Lxpony]

So my first impressions off the bike are good-

Tons of power and effortless acceleration in 3rd gear from 40mph+

The odd thing though are the brakes. My rear brake has MUCH less bite then on my 04 Katana 600. I know the rear pads are new so either I have air/water in the fluid or the rear brake bias on a supersport bike is much different then on a touring bike like the katana. The fronts have a great feel but the rear has me wondering if something isnt right.

I realize you are limited with feedback but I think I will bleed the rear caliper to see if the feel improves. I actually am rather accustomed to using the rear brake to scrub off speed while entering a turn where I feel I am going in too hot. When I tried that last night taking a tight turn in hardwick I was surprised (not in a good way) about how unresponsive the rear brake was.

What do people think?

[Pittenger5]

Dont use the rear.

[ThisBitch]

[OreoGaborio]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

As you probably already know, the front brakes on just about any bike give you 70% OR MORE of your total braking power... On a sportbike, which generally has a higher and more forward center of gravity than other types of road bikes, this is very pronounced. Bleed the rears & see what it does, just realize it's gonna be a lot easier to lock up that rear brake compared to the lower, heavier katana once it's working properly.... Because of that I rarely use the rear brakes, especially in a curve (which you should't really be doing on the street anyway )

[greenmonster]

Dont use the rear.

+1...from what I've read/heard front brakes handle about 70% of the bike's braking anyway. Skip using the back as much as you can.

[keeena]

I'll ride it and let ya know.

A good bleed won't hurt. Possible that it was never done when pads replaced. How does the fluid look?

When I tried that last night taking a tight turn in hardwick...

Wouldn't happen to be that 32 cutoff road, huh?

[Lxpony]

I'll ride it and let ya know.

A good bleed won't hurt. Possible that it was never done when pads replaced. How does the fluid look?

No idea- the MC opaque body obscures the color of the fluid

Wouldn't happen to be that 32 cutoff road, huh?

Sshh- that road is our little secret..

[TTD]

As mentioned, the more "racy" a bike is... the less the rear brake does because the bike has a forward weight bias.

My Honda Goldwing could stop way better than my CBR600rr. I could just stomp on the brakes (front and rear) and the thing would just squat beautifully and scrub off the speed.

With a sportbike, your back brake is most effective at the beginning of your braking. Once the front brake has "taken over"... the rear is so light that the rear brake has little effect.

Having said that... I personally prefer a real weak back brake. I don't have the touch with my boots as I do with my fingers so a weak brake keeps you out of trouble when touching it leaned over.

[legalspeed]

I actually am rather accustomed to using the rear brake to scrub off speed while entering a turn where I feel I am going in too hot. When I tried that last night taking a tight turn in hardwick I was surprised (not in a good way) about how unresponsive the rear brake was.

What do people think?

Explain unresponsive. Touring or sport, you should be able to lock that wheel with the brake. Is unresponsive due to skidding the rear tire? or is there not enough friction to lock the wheel?

On another note, you may want to transition into using your front brake almost exclusively now that you are riding a sport bike.

[Doc]

I'll use the rear on the street for about 20% of my braking. Not much on the track though.

[spicy]

i only use my rear brake during slow-speed maneuvering, and that's just dragging it so i can cruise around mackin' the chicas at a blistered .67mph

the SV's feels as wooden as a 2x4, so it's not like there's really much room for finesse (though i suppose the reverse would be even more true...)

[TimD]

I don't use the rear brake much except for dirt/low traction, and holding the bike on a hill. Mine is pretty sensitive though, its not hard at all to lock the rear on any surface.

[Evil_Weasel]

i love all the, "well it's just the rear brake if it's broken just don't use it" first off i only have 2 sets of brakes...personally i like my back brake in good working order. if something goes wrong with the fronts...it's all you've got left.

secondly alot of riders do use the rear brake. it's a perfectly accebtable riding technique last i checked. just because it's differant than your all front, all the time technique doesn't make it wrong. i've been usuing my back brake for every stop street or track since i started riding. i've tried the front brake only but i didn't like it.

anyway. sounds like the last owner of the bike failed at bleeding the brakes. i'd start there. maybe pull and clean the caliper, and piston as well.

[Ken C]

Well this thread has turned into a rear brake discussion, rather than a discussion about a possible problem with a particular bike's rear brake. But, I'll play.

Definitely change/bleed the rear brake. But realize that the rear brakes on supersport bikes are deliberately made to be much less powerful than the front for reasons already stated by Tony.

As far as braking technique, I recommend using both brakes on the street and front only in 99% of track riding. You can read my book to find out why. Oh, all right, I give up a few of the reasons here.

1. habit- You'll use the brakes the way you are trained to. Ask yourself whether you want ALL the braking power available when faced with a threat.

2. The rear brake adds stability- Yes, it can also destabilize the bike if used incorrectly, but used right and there is a benefit to added control.

3. A useful tool- not only for what I just mentioned, but also as a way to slow in low traction situations.

Rear brake control takes practice, but it's a tool worth learning and using regularly.

[Lxpony]

I bleed the rear caliper (both bleeder valves) last night with the help of Mrs Lxpony and within 4-5 flush cycles a large amount of air bubbles shot out into the clear drain tube. After that the brake pedal became much firmer which is what I was hoping it would do.

The rear had never been bleed and I cant wait to see how it feels tomorrow.

Like I originally posted- I use the rear in concert with the front. It is my opinion that using the rear helps settle the suspension and prevents overloading the front forks on a hard braking situation. And I use the rears exclusively when I miss judge the appropriate entrance speed for a sharp turn or decreasing radius turn

[Ken C]

And I use the rears exclusively when I miss judge the appropriate entrance speed for a sharp turn or decreasing radius turn

Why do you use the rear brake in this situation? I think that both brakes are still the way to go (or better yet, brake sooner/harder to avoid the problem in the first place. )

I'm glad to hear the brake is working better now.

[Dogbone]

I bleed the rear caliper (both bleeder valves) last night with the help of Mrs Lxpony and within 4-5 flush cycles a large amount of air bubbles shot out into the clear drain tube. After that the brake pedal became much firmer which is what I was hoping it would do.

The rear had never been bleed and I cant wait to see how it feels tomorrow.

Like I originally posted- I use the rear in concert with the front. It is my opinion that using the rear helps settle the suspension and prevents overloading the front forks on a hard braking situation. And I use the rears exclusively when I miss judge the appropriate entrance speed for a sharp turn or decreasing radius turn

Its good that you got it working with little hassle, but your last statement is a bit off point and the final part is plain disturbing.

Using the rear will not help you from overloading the front fork. Physics demand that using it tranfers weight forward, thus onto the front fork. But in using it to settle front just prior to applying the front brakes, you do limit the front end "dive."

Using it when you overcook a corner, any corner, is asking to end up on your back side. If you feel like you overcooked a corner you have two choices: overcome the fear reaction and lean more, or keep it upright a hair longer than you want to, scrub speed while upright and dump it hard to stay on the road. That may not sound like ideal advice, but its pretty much what you're going to manage in a true panic situation. (The best idea would be to hit up a bunch of track days and learn the true capabilities of your new bike so you don't panic in the first place )

[bigred875]

And I use the rears exclusively when I miss judge the appropriate entrance speed for a sharp turn or decreasing radius turn

[ThisBitch]

that makes no sense to me at all.

[LiononaLeash]

There's a rear brake? I was wondering what that thing near my right foot was.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Its good that you got it working with little hassle, but your last statement is a bit off point and the final part is plain disturbing.

Using the rear will not help you from overloading the front fork. Physics demand that using it tranfers weight forward, thus onto the front fork.)

What works for me is work on getting a good grip with the tank with your legs under braking. Your weight shoud transfer forward from your legs into the tank in a forward motion. The point is to support yourself with your legs. So that you are not weighting the Handle bars sending the force from your shoulders and into the fork legs. If you transfer all of your weight into the fork legs you bottom out the suspension and when you run out of travel you run out of traction. and you hit the ground.

[Lxpony]

that makes no sense to me at all.

If I am already leaned over and I determine my speed is too high I use the rear to adjust......

I am new to this sport so let me know if there is a better technique... I know I could always lean further into the turn but I havent built up the balls to try that as the exclusive way of handling the turn yet.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

If I am already leaned over and I determine my speed is too high I use the rear to adjust......

I am new to this sport so let me know if there is a better technique... I know I could always lean further into the turn but I havent built up the balls to try that as the exclusive way of handling the turn yet.

Slow the hell down,

Parctace trail braking, It is safer to set you entry speen going in and leave some margin of error for yourself. Dont try to go to fast to soon.

You will get it for sure

[bigred875]

If I am already leaned over and I determine my speed is too high I use the rear to adjust......

I am new to this sport so let me know if there is a better technique... I know I could always lean further into the turn but I havent built up the balls to try that as the exclusive way of handling the turn yet.

there are guys on here more qualified to answer but i'll give it a go...

when you are leaned over in a corner the contact patch on the tire is pretty small...add slowing to that, which transfers weight to the front and you have even less contact on the rear tire. At this point the braking effort it takes to lock up that tire is significantly reduced making the chances of locking that tire up very good.

[bigred875]

if you've ever seen a vid of someone crashing mid-corner for no apperent reason....this is usually the reason.

trail braking is an advanced technique..if you are a newer rider I would not practice it until you have good rear brake control.

If you wait a couple hours I am sure there will be better responses from the smarty pants. I'd pick up Ken's book too..i dont have it yet, but its on the list and I've been riding since '94.