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rule #1

  1. #1
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    Keith Code

    what is he talking about in the highlight section below?

    "Once the throttle is chracked open, is roll on evenly, smoothly, and constantly thru out the remaider turn. it's not worth trying to get the speed you think you should have had. you'll only make it worse trying to getit.

    at the point where correct transfer of weigh is achieve by the rider, 10-20% rearward by using the throttle, any big changes in that weigh distribution reduce available traction.

    once the bike is fully lean into a turn, changes entire load either evenly, both wheels, mostly easily done in a crested road situation or alternately front to back, back to front from throttle on and off, must an either under weight or over weigh the ideal load for that particular turn by combination. "

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    Last edited by Kham; 05-04-04 at 08:18 AM.
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  2. #2
    Lifer legalspeed's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Is that a direct quote? I had to read it many times, this is what I think Kieth is trying to tell us:
    Every corner is different and you need to be aware of your weight distribution as well as your power distribution for that unique curve. Example given is cresting a hill; you should lean forward, leaving only 10-20% of your rider weight on the rear. If you lean rearward and leave 10-20% of rider weight forward, you will loft the front tire traversing the hill. This is called breaking traction with the front.

    Point two: any change in power or weight distribution makes a big cahnge in your corner, therefore, avoid things like abrupt throttle control in the middle of a corner. Be smooth. Don't downshift and let out the clutch in a hot corner unless you are VERY experienced with matching output shaft and drive shaft rpms.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  3. #3
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    rule #1

    I would be shocked to find that you typed it verbatim but I suspect he is talking about loading either end of the bike with the throttle. He starts by saying the throttle should be left on a little through the whole turn. He then points to the fact that the first rule may not always apply. He alludes that it might be necessary in some turns to vary the load front and rear to go as fast as is possible sometimes due to elevation changes in the track.

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  4. #4
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    i got the audio CD set. i understand the first 2 sections. couldn't understand what the heck he means "once lean into a turn..".

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  5. #5
    Lifer legalspeed's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by Kham
    i got the audio CD set. i understand the first 2 sections. couldn't understand what the heck he means "once lean into a turn..".
    Some of us don't keep the bike vertical in a corner, we lean it over to help the machine through it at a faster pace.
    In racing (an extreme) we lean the bike over so far our knees hit the ground, this helps lessen the weight on our bike and therefore enable us to take the corner even faster.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  6. #6
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Some of us don't keep the bike vertical in a corner, we lean it over to help the machine through it at a faster pace.
    In racing (an extreme) we lean the bike over so far our knees hit the ground, this helps lessen the weight on our bike and therefore enable us to take the corner even faster.
    Wow, I gotta try that some time. sounds like a great new technique!

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  7. #7
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    no no i understand the centrifugal force.

    i dont understand what he is saying here once lean over. you either change the load evenly or front to back, back to front with the throttle control or combo?

    what the heck is ".. must an either under weight or over weigh the ideal load for that particular turn by combo"?

    "once the bike is fully lean into a turn, changes entire load either evenly, both wheels, mostly easily done in a crested road situation or alternately front to back, back to front from throttle on and off, must an either under weight or over weigh the ideal load for that particular turn by combination. "

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  8. #8
    Lifer legalspeed's Avatar
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    rule #1



    Be careful if you're a newbie, knee draggin' on the street is NOT recommended.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  9. #9
    Lifer legalspeed's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Umm, Stoink'?

    I can only tell you what I do in a corner. Typically I post it and everyone makes fun of me. Then they correct me and I get good advice amongst the silly comments.

    I do know it was easy to see who raced at Loudon when we were at Daytona.

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  10. #10
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Umm, Stoink'?

    I can only tell you what I do in a corner. Typically I post it and everyone makes fun of me. Then they correct me and I get good advice amongst the silly comments.

    I do know it was easy to see who raced at Loudon when we were at Daytona.
    i dont understand what he is saying here once lean over. you either change the load evenly or front to back, back to front with the throttle control or combo?


    I am by no means an expert on the subject but Kham, did you read the first to replies to your post? They sum it up nicely, I think. You cna change the load on the tire by added or reducing throttle. Add throttle and you load the rear tire. Reduce throttle and you load the front. This comes in handy when you need more load on one tire (or less on the other tire) Since you typically try to load the rear tire in a corner, he's saying it's sometimes OK and desirable to not load the rear tire so much because you can make the front end too light, citing a perfect example of a crest in the middle of a corner.

    I imagine race track designers try to put challenges such as this into the track design to seperate the men from the boys, so to speak. I know I would if I were to design my own track (and if I het the powerball, that just may happen )

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    Last edited by stoinkythepig; 05-04-04 at 09:40 AM.

  11. #11
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    i got the idea. thanks.

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  12. #12
    Lifer legalspeed's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by stoinkythepig
    I imagine race track designers try to put challenges such as this into the track design to seperate the men from the boys, so to speak. I know I would if I were to design my own track (and if I het the powerball, that just may happen )
    Loudon: ~1.5mi, 12 serious corners (only because we don't count two of them).

    Daytona: ~3.5mi, 5 corners (OK, 4 plus a shakaine (sp?) thrown in).

    At Loudon you learn to corner well, at Daytona you learn to go fast.

    Can I be your track tester?

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    LRRS\CCS\WERA #486

  13. #13
    Dictionary quoting knob stoinkythepig's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by legalspeed
    Loudon: ~1.5mi, 12 serious corners (only because we don't count two of them).

    Daytona: ~3.5mi, 5 corners (OK, 4 plus a shakaine (sp?) thrown in).

    At Loudon you learn to corner well, at Daytona you learn to go fast.

    Can I be your track tester?
    I'm not a speed freak. My personal track would be more akin to autocross (corner wise) and really fun on a Super Motard bike. I'm thinking 45 (nicely banked, for the most part) corners in 2 miles and half as many rapid elevation changes. Crashes would be pretty harmless because top speeds would be low.

    Just dreaming, unexpectedly slooooowww work day today.

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  14. #14
    Lifer
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    rule #1

    Tony manages to explain this better at the track days. Keith Code DOES have a way of making everything sound like rocket science.

    All the first part is saying is slowly increase the throttle as you go through the turn. Tony's analogy is the throttle is a ratchet. You want it to be going click - click - click, not just turning it hard all at once. If you grab a little too much throttle that way, nothing super dramatic happens. If you increase throttle drastically and overdo it, you get a butt-pucker moment or you go surfing.

    (At least I think that was Tony who explained it that way. )

    Ben

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  15. #15
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    yp rocket science. explains further like this.

    ideal situation for track is 40/60 weigh distribution. a Light Touch thumb rule is 5th gear @4k-6k for 600cc and up which he said roughly .1 -.2G acceleration once you get on it. but this is track oriented.

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    Last edited by Kham; 05-04-04 at 02:09 PM.
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  16. #16
    KB KB's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Put down the damn head phones go buy a bike and ride already Kham!!!

    KB

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    LRRS/CCS EX #13

    GMD COMPUTRACK

  17. #17
    I kick hippies...and Kham Nikon's Avatar
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    rule #1

    i thought that the first rule was that you do not talk about fight club

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    Bras cause cancer.

  18. #18
    aka Johnny Valve Stem need4speed's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by benSV
    Tony manages to explain this better at the track days. Keith Code DOES have a way of making everything sound like rocket science.

    All the first part is saying is slowly increase the throttle as you go through the turn. Tony's analogy is the throttle is a ratchet. You want it to be going click - click - click, not just turning it hard all at once. If you grab a little too much throttle that way, nothing super dramatic happens. If you increase throttle drastically and overdo it, you get a butt-pucker moment or you go surfing.

    (At least I think that was Tony who explained it that way. )

    Ben
    Ben you hit the nail on the head. that is exactly what he had mention at his last trackday.

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    John
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    "To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains".


  19. #19
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Forget about this section of the tape. Code's one flaw is to overthink things. While this may be an exercise that has value to an expert racer, it will only make the average rider think WAAAAY too much about what to do in a corner.

    Slow, look, press, roll. That's it. It's always the same. No need to split hairs until you are trying to squeeze 2/10ths of a second out of a turn.

    Happy riding

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    Paul_E_D


  20. #20
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by Paul_E_D
    Forget about this section of the tape. Code's one flaw is to overthink things. While this may be an exercise that has value to an expert racer, it will only make the average rider think WAAAAY too much about what to do in a corner.

    well if become skill than you wouldn't have to think about it. but damn .. there's more to turning sportbike than just
    Slow, look, press, roll. That's it. It's always the same. No need to split hairs until you are trying to squeeze 2/10ths of a second out of a turn.

    Happy riding
    the basic is for Goldwing.

    i'll share the lesson if anyone that hasn't read is interested once i get it sink in some more.

    it's interesting in section about getting your mass close to the bike center of mass by using outside footpeg while you're hanging off on the inside. i suppose it could be done but just cant imagine right now.

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  21. #21
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    i think i fully understand my last crash now. it wasn't all my fault. someone said part of it might be suspension is probably right. i mean i didn't chop the throttle, but maybe decrease little bit and somehow the front traction was gone when i tried to correct the line.

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  22. #22
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    well i think im ready for the track now. somebody lend me a bike?

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  23. #23
    Lifer bentbryan's Avatar
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    rule #1

    Originally posted by Kham
    i think i fully understand my last crash now. it wasn't all my fault.


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    2003 Yamaha R6
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  24. #24
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    rule #1

    there's more to turning sportbike than just slow look press and roll
    Wanna bet? I have done thousands of laps at loudon, and 40,000 street miles. I haven't met a turn yet where these basic steps wouldn't get you through in the quickest and safest manner.

    The faster you go the harder it is to do all those steps smoothly and without hesitation. I still have to scream in my helmet to get the roll step done as soon as the bike is leaned over.

    Believe me, if I worried about mass centralisation, weighting pegs, 40/60 balance, blah blah bla I would be dog slow. If I don't focus extremely hard on "slow, look, press, and roll" though, I'm going to be slow AND crash.

    Even Code has a diatribe about mastering these basics before you think about his "advanced" techniques. I disagree with Code in one respect, and that is I don't think of those things as techniques, I think they are the RESULTS of truly mastering the basics.

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  25. #25
    I Dance With Will
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    rule #1

    im not saying the basic tecnique doesn't apply. it is a techniqu none the less. the advance is derived from the basic and i think we all know that. what the basic doesn't say is how much lean, how quick you turn, what is ideal line, the turn in point, the survival reactions like chopping throttle in mid turn and stiff arm, etc. as well as corrective action. if you can get these to sink in without thinking about it i dont see it's bad if not help.

    i feel like a new person already.

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