Supermoto Information Needed

[LowSider]

Long time, no post...


I'm looking for info and opinions on a bike.

History: I bought a hyper in 2010 thinking it would be an all in one solution to my bike related desires. I soon realized to be I wanted something that was more for touring and 2up riding and something else that was more for being a hooligan/trackdays... so the solution is two bikes. I am eyeing the new multi or the new 1290 super adventure (another post) and some kind of supermoto for street and trackday use.

I have been seriously considering the KTM 500EXC but I do not know much about these kinds of bikes. Opinions on it? Will it blow up at a loudon, NJ, or palmer trackday? Other than wheels, what would I HAVE to do to it and what SHOULD I do it? Is there still a motard class at LRRS? What are people running in it?

I like the SXV550 too but the last model year was 2012 and many of them seem to like to turn into a grenade.

Any information would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Harrison

[Kurlon]

I don't have first hand experience on the new twin cam KTMs, but there are a bunch being raced. Will it blow up? No. Should you stay on top of maint? Yes. Will you be reducing the time between full rebuilds with frequent track activity? Yes.

Wheels, plus you'll want a 320mm rotor and matching 'oversize' bracket for your OEM caliper and really should consider a set of reduced offset fork clamps so the geometry makes sense with 17s on pavement at speed. If you can, spring for a cush drive rear wheel, they're easier to source for KTMs used than the other marquees. There is still a specific Motard class, plus multiple other classes that dirty bikes excel in with LRRS.

[Ductard]

xxaarra just bought an SXV, so I think he's done a lot of recent research. You should ping him.

[Puppet]

if you want a track ready bike....ahem....http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...ight=supermoto

maintenance on the RFS: Lots of oil changes. It doesn't run a lot, so keep it clean. Occasional top end. Valves are super easy to inspect and seem to stay in spec. On the bigger race bikes (the 560), welding/balancing the crank was imperative. We did it on the 450 as a preventative.

[xxaarraa]

xxaarra just bought an SXV, so I think he's done a lot of recent research. You should ping him.

All my research led me to the same conclusion: The KTM is the best bet. Plenty of parts, reliable, practical, well thought out. If you are looking for a motard, you pretty much have to have a good reason NOT to buy a KTM. It's the default choice. So I bought the SXV.

I like Italian bikes. I love the hollywood motor in the SXV (70 hp vtwin. smallest v-twin ever). It's a LIGHT bike, lighter than the KTM alternatives. I love the over-specced brakes (my 848 has the same size rotor and calipers). I love the over-specced rear wheel (the 848 runs the same tires, and side to side, the swingarm is a tad wider than my RSV4). I love the undertail dual exhaust. I love that the oil runs through the frame, that's pretty exotic in a dirt bike. And I love the classic Italian design language. Like most Italian bikes, looking at it makes me want to ride it. The KTM doesn't, it's just not special enough.

But the SXV is not a reliable or particularly well-made thing. It is also a barely disguised race bike with all the race bike downsides. You have to drain the oil from 3 places, do oil changes every 900 street miles, do gearbox oil changes (separate from engine oil) often, top end every 90 hours, motor needs to be dropped for valve checks, etc. etc.

Here's the bottom line: if it's to be your primary bike, I'd advice against it. If you have other bikes (that are more reliable hopefully), then you should buy it. Said another way, if the KTM was the girl next door who could clean up nice, the SXV is an exotic porn star. Take your pick.

[Ductard]

All my research led me to the same conclusion: The KTM is the best bet. Plenty of parts, reliable, practical, well thought out. If you are looking for a motard, you pretty much have to have a good reason NOT to buy a KTM. It's the default choice. So I bought the SXV.

I like Italian bikes. I love the hollywood motor in the SXV (70 hp vtwin. smallest v-twin ever). It's a LIGHT bike, lighter than the KTM alternatives. I love the over-specced brakes (my 848 has the same size rotor and calipers). I love the over-specced rear wheel (the 848 runs the same tires, and end to end, the swingarm is a tad wider than my RSV4). I love the undertail dual exhaust. I love that the oil runs through the frame, that's pretty exotic in a dirt bike. And I love the classic Italian design language.

But it's not a reliable or particularly well-made thing. It is also a barely disguised race bike with all the race bike downsides. You have to drain the oil from 3 places, do oil changes every 900 street miles, do gearbox oil changes (separate from engine oil) often, top end every 90 hours, motor needs to be dropped for valve checks, etc. etc.

Here's the bottom line: if it's to be your primary bike, I'd advice against it. If you have other bikes (that are more reliable hopefully), then you should buy it. Like most Italian bikes, looking at it makes me want to ride it. The KTM doesn't. Said another way, if the KTM was the girl next door who could clean up nice, the SXV is an exotic porn star. Take your pick.

No CRF love? My thinking has always been that parts were even easier to find on that, and I assumed they were weapons on the track, as a lot of guys run them.

[xxaarraa]

No CRF love? My thinking has always been that parts were even easier to find on that, and I assumed they were weapons on the track, as a lot of guys run them.

Good question. I don't know much about CRFs, other than not all of them are fast. Even so, they can't be faster, brake better, or be more fun than an SXV, so I didn't bother looking into them.

Since it's a Honda, it will probably work every day of the week, whereas the SXV only works on Tuesdays. In June.

[Ductard]

All my research led me to the same conclusion: The KTM is the best bet. Plenty of parts, reliable, practical, well thought out. If you are looking for a motard, you pretty much have to have a good reason NOT to buy a KTM. It's the default choice. So I bought the SXV.

I like Italian bikes. I love the hollywood motor in the SXV (70 hp vtwin. smallest v-twin ever). It's a LIGHT bike, lighter than the KTM alternatives. I love the over-specced brakes (my 848 has the same size rotor and calipers). I love the over-specced rear wheel (the 848 runs the same tires, and end to end, the swingarm is a tad wider than my RSV4). I love the undertail dual exhaust. I love that the oil runs through the frame, that's pretty exotic in a dirt bike. And I love the classic Italian design language.

But it's not a reliable or particularly well-made thing. It is also a barely disguised race bike with all the race bike downsides. You have to drain the oil from 3 places, do oil changes every 900 street miles, do gearbox oil changes (separate from engine oil) often, top end every 90 hours, motor needs to be dropped for valve checks, etc. etc.

Here's the bottom line: if it's to be your primary bike, I'd advice against it. If you have other bikes (that are more reliable hopefully), then you should buy it. Like most Italian bikes, looking at it makes me want to ride it. The KTM doesn't. Said another way, if the KTM was the girl next door who could clean up nice, the SXV is an exotic porn star. Take your pick.

Any idea what this means?

Engine number 06991 (if you know these bikes, you know this is a great thing)

[xxaarraa]

Any idea what this means?

Probably referring to a case sealant issue early bikes were having. It needed the case to be split and resealed, major labor $$.

I should have mentioned to the OP. There are probably two SXV master techs left in the country. Bikes that have been setup by either command a high price (though SXVs in general cost a lot more than equivalent alternatives). One is "Allen Noland" in MD and the other is "Amauri" in SD. Amauri ran Aprilia's factory sumo team back in the day. I have spoken to both, and general consensus among them (they are biased of course) was that when setup right, the SXVs were pretty reliable. All the race bike downsides I mentioned earlier still apply.

[Puppet]

Weren't there some early years/models that ended up with warrantied motor swaps from Aprilia? I wonder if that's a designation that falls into the "good" engine batch

[csmutty]

Good question. I don't know much about CRFs, other than not all of them are fast. Even so, they can't be faster, brake better, or be more fun than an SXV, so I didn't bother looking into them.

Since it's a Honda, it will probably work every day of the week, whereas the SXV only works on Tuesdays. In June.

The sxv is a class killer....when it's running.

[Kurlon]

The sxv is a class killer....when it's running.

Eh, the SXV has legs, but it's also a lil piggie compared to current gen 450s. 270lbs dry vs 250lbs* WET with 55hp+, the SXV isn't going to be as big a weapon as it used to be. Now, an MXV tipping the scales at 235lbs dry... that'd be a mean base to start on but it only came in the 450 variant so you'd be down on power. Also, because the SXV is a twin, it's much more restricted as to what classes it's legal for and what mods are allowed in CCS/LRRS.

For more fun, 2016 KTM 450 SX-F with e-start is 222lbs sans gas. 250 SX is 211lbs if you prefer smokers. You can also bump it to a 300 with OEM parts. I'd assume the 450 can be bumped to 500 similarly.

Also, the 'priller isn't the smallest V-Twin out there, don't forget the Moto Morini 3.5 (350), Virago 250 and 125.

* 2016 YZ450F

[csmutty]

Growler had a SXV550 that he raced for a very brief period of time...guess why. But it dominated.

[Kurlon]

Growler had a SXV550 that he raced for a very brief period of time...guess why. But it dominated.

When he puts his head down he can be VERY quick on just about anything. I greatly enjoyed getting my ass kicked by him on minis, learned a lot trying to chase him.

As I noted though, the world has moved on since then, the current crop of 250s are approaching power levels of built 450s from that era, the 450s are even angrier. I don't think the SXV can overcome it's weight penalty vs the new 450s to be dominant any more.

[Ductard]

Eh, the SXV has legs, but it's also a lil piggie

"Lil piggy" is not what I shouted inside my helmet when xxaarrra walked on me on the front straight at NYST.

Of course I was not on one of those newfangled 450's you were talking about.

Dammit - Stop putting ideas or bikes to spend money in my head! That goes for all of you.

[maxim_X]

Good question. I don't know much about CRFs, other than not all of them are fast. Even so, they can't be faster, brake better, or be more fun than an SXV, so I didn't bother looking into them.

I just feel like this is very misleading information, other than the line about not knowing much about crfs.

[xxaarraa]

"Lil piggy" is not what I shouted inside my helmet when xxaarrra walked on me on the front straight at NYST.

Of course I was not on one of those newfangled 450's you were talking about.

Dammit - Stop putting ideas or bikes to spend money in my head! That goes for all of you.

haha. I didn't even realize it was you till I was right on you. From a distance, I was like "hey, that's another motard!" and I then as I passed you, I remember thinking "shit that happened way faster than I thought it was going to. and it's ductard!!"

And that was with stock gearing (16-46). I have new front and rear sprockets on order (17-43), roughly a whole gear's worth of regearing. The Af1 guys who raced SXVs supposedly ran right up to 17-38!

Bruce just picked up an SXV too. It's making a comeback!

[xxaarraa]

I just feel like this is very misleading information, other than the line about not knowing much about crfs.

I readily admit I don't know much at all about motards, other than all of them being too tall. Say more about the new CRFs?

[maxim_X]

Most of the motards not the grid are running any combination of built motors, suspension and brake upgrades. Usually all of them. So, the go fast, stop fast, and turn.

[xxaarraa]

Most of the motards not the grid are running any combination of built motors, suspension and brake upgrades. Usually all of them. So, the go fast, stop fast, and turn.

I thought we were talking about off the shelf motards and not custom builds.

Off the shelf, the sxv is (or was, according to Kurlon) SIGNIFICANTLY faster than alternatives. And brakes better. Kurlon says newer motards have caught up so I was asking about the 2016 crfs and how they compare.

Not to mention the small fact that the SXV is a street bike (and CRFs are not, right?) from 8 years ago.

[Ductard]

[csmutty]

Crf were never off the shelf motard so per your definition you can never compare. You can get a fully built crf that would rock your world for $5k.

[Ductard]

Crf were never off the shelf motard so per your definition you can never compare. You can get a fully built crf that would rock your world for $5k.

Let me know if you come across one of those. I'm casually shopping for an upgrade.

[xxaarraa]

Crf were never off the shelf motard so per your definition you can never compare. You can get a fully built crf that would rock your world for $5k.

So why are we comparing?? The OP's question was about off the shelf motards - "which should I buy? SXV or KTM?" If you and maxim are saying "neither, go build your own CRF" that's OK.

But when you venture into "built CRFs are faster" you are on a slippery slope. I can pay a tuning shop to build me a Toyota Supra to take out a stock Ferrari, but kinda irrelevant when someone comes around asking "should I buy X or Y?" because how good my tuning shop is and how good my spec is, is always a variable / very subjective.

[csmutty]

So why are we comparing?? The OP's question was about off the shelf motards - "which should I buy? SXV or KTM?" If you and maxim are saying "neither, go build your own CRF" that's OK.

But when you venture into "built CRFs are faster" you are on a slippery slope. I can pay a tuning shop to build me a Toyota Supra to take out a stock Ferrari, but kinda irrelevant when someone comes around asking "should I buy X or Y?" because how good my tuning shop is and how good my spec is, is always a variable / very subjective.

Look at my last post that you handsomely quoted. Find for me where I said to build one. Buy used already built is what I said.

You bought your pos aprilia used. There are built crf's used. Ohhh look at that!

How soon your motor is going to pop in your aprilia is also a factor.