Supermoto Information Needed

[Ductard]

So why are we comparing?? The OP's question was about off the shelf motards - "which should I buy? SXV or KTM?" If you and maxim are saying "neither, go build your own CRF" that's OK.

But when you venture into "built CRFs are faster" you are on a slippery slope. I can pay a tuning shop to build me a Toyota Supra to take out a stock Ferrari, but kinda irrelevant when someone comes around asking "should I buy X or Y?" because how good my tuning shop is and how good my spec is, is always a variable / very subjective.

I get your point about comparing a bike that's modded to the nth degree vs an "off the shelf" bike, but I think you might be putting words into the OP's mouth there.

He never said "off the shelf" motard. He asked what he needed to get beyond wheels and never said he wanted to do zero modifications (I would say that would cover stuff like crank work that you just about need to do to at least the older KTM's by my understanding).

But he did ask if there was a motard class and what people are running in it.

I brought up CRF's because they are the most common or second most common bike in the grid, either in front of or behind KTM's.

I think the thread is going in a pretty informative direction, but what would probably be most helpful to the OP is if we:

a) knew what his target budget is

and

b) had a better feel for how relatively important street hooliganism, track day riding, and racing are for him.


Then we can argue whether, for instance $5K gets him a built CRF race weapon + $200 for headlights/taillights he can put on between rounds and make street legal.

or

$3K gets him a KTM which is a solid race bike but will never be street legal (mine..cough..cough..)

or

If the racing questions were more a casual throw-in, maybe he's looking for more of a daily driver that can hang the front wheel half-way to work every day, and he can maybe take to the track once or twice a year (Prolly a DRZ 400, but not an area I know a lot about).

[Kurlon]

I thought we were talking about off the shelf motards and not custom builds.

Off the shelf, the sxv is (or was, according to Kurlon) SIGNIFICANTLY faster than alternatives. And brakes better. Kurlon says newer motards have caught up so I was asking about the 2016 crfs and how they compare.

Not to mention the small fact that the SXV is a street bike (and CRFs are not, right?) from 8 years ago.

Comparing the SXV against a 2015 CRF:

Approx 303lbs gassed up vs 250lbs gassed up (Wet weight on the 450 is 243, I'm padding it for heavier motard wheels, etc)
Approx 70hp rear wheel (uncorked) vs 55hp rear wheel out of the crate, 60hp is achievable with uncorking
4 pot 'FTE' cast radial caliper gripping a 320mm single rotor vs anything from a two pot dirtbike caliper to a 6 pot billet monoblock radial biting a 320mm rotor
$1000 for a bare crank vs $370 for crank, big end bearing and rod
$200 for pistons vs $100 for a piston

If I was going to RACE competitively, I'd be on the CRF, Yam, etc primarily due to the much lower rebuild costs. For TD and light race duty, the SXV would be fun, and would be a weapon on big tracks outside of NHMS. Places where XR650s also beat up on their smaller displacement siblings.

Fun info: 2014 250 dynos, remember when these numbers were good for 450s? http://dirtbikemagazine.com/Media/News/250fdynoweb.jpg

Fun info 2: My poor WReck is going to get it's arse handed to it by modern 450s, and modern 250s won't be skeeered of it. On the braking front, I'm actually looking at the same FTE caliper the SXV runs as you can get them used for pretty reasonable.

[nhbubba]

OP, are you looking for a street bike you can casually run track days for shitzingiggles? Or a race bike to be competitive running LRRS?

On the other end of the spectrum.. I have a DRZ400 that I've done everything short of taking a dump in the intake and it is still a barrel of laughs on a race track. Competitive racing? Hell no. Dirt cheap, 110% street legal fun? Yup. Crashes great too. Well, mostly great.

I lust over a 500EXC with two sets of wheels. Think I could be very, very happy with that. I believe that motorcycle is basically a DRZ but better in positively every measurable way.

[Jewcati]

Long time, no post...


I'm looking for info and opinions on a bike.

History: I bought a hyper in 2010 thinking it would be an all in one solution to my bike related desires. I soon realized to be I wanted something that was more for touring and 2up riding and something else that was more for being a hooligan/trackdays... so the solution is two bikes. I am eyeing the new multi or the new 1290 super adventure (another post) and some kind of supermoto for street and trackday use.

I have been seriously considering the KTM 500EXC but I do not know much about these kinds of bikes. Opinions on it? Will it blow up at a loudon, NJ, or palmer trackday? Other than wheels, what would I HAVE to do to it and what SHOULD I do it? Is there still a motard class at LRRS? What are people running in it?

I like the SXV550 too but the last model year was 2012 and many of them seem to like to turn into a grenade.

Any information would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Harrison

Wll, I cant speak to the supermoto, but go with the '15 multi for the street. I have had mine for a week and it certainly does not dissapoint! the DVT is amazing. Some small software glitched for nor, but nothing that cant be righted with a software update. I would jump right in!

[xxaarraa]

Look at my last post that you handsomely quoted. Find for me where I said to build one. Buy used already built is what I said.

You bought your pos aprilia used. There are built crf's used. Ohhh look at that!

How soon your motor is going to pop in your aprilia is also a factor.

Take it easy dude! Yeah, every track day that the SXV doesn't blow up is a bonus. I said so pretty clearly up front. This isn't and never was an SXV fanboi thread.

Comparing the SXV against a 2015 CRF:

Approx 303lbs gassed up vs 250lbs gassed up (Wet weight on the 450 is 243, I'm padding it for heavier motard wheels, etc)
Approx 70hp rear wheel (uncorked) vs 55hp rear wheel out of the crate, 60hp is achievable with uncorking
4 pot 'FTE' cast radial caliper gripping a 320mm single rotor vs anything from a two pot dirtbike caliper to a 6 pot billet monoblock radial biting a 320mm rotor
$1000 for a bare crank vs $370 for crank, big end bearing and rod
$200 for pistons vs $100 for a piston

If I was going to RACE competitively, I'd be on the CRF, Yam, etc primarily due to the much lower rebuild costs. For TD and light race duty, the SXV would be fun, and would be a weapon on big tracks outside of NHMS. Places where XR650s also beat up on their smaller displacement siblings.

Fun info: 2014 250 dynos, remember when these numbers were good for 450s? http://dirtbikemagazine.com/Media/News/250fdynoweb.jpg

Fun info 2: My poor WReck is going to get it's arse handed to it by modern 450s, and modern 250s won't be skeeered of it. On the braking front, I'm actually looking at the same FTE caliper the SXV runs as you can get them used for pretty reasonable.

Precisely what I was asking about, cool. I get what you meant by the newer 450s have caught up / surpassed. If I end up liking the motard thing and my riding ever grows to me wanting to upgrade, good to know about modern motards.

[JettaJayGLS]

You don't even need to heavily modify a CRF or buy a new one. My 02 crf ran 20s on stock suspension. Apparently the previous rider ran 18s on it. Stock triple clamps, stockish motor, stock suspension. I bought it for $2,500.

That being said. I would never have a crf for a street bike. SXV or big bore KTM/husky all the way.

I would also never race an SXV or a big bore KTM/husky.

[Ductard]

6 pot billet monoblock radial biting a 320mm rotor

That sounds sexy.



The fact that I think brake calipers are sexy is why I'm still single.
I accept that.

If I was going to RACE competitively, I would piece together a Frankenbike just for kicks and pay more in entry fees my first race weekend than I did for the whole setup, and prolly still beat some people.

FIFY.

[xxaarraa]

Wll, I cant speak to the supermoto, but go with the '15 multi for the street. I have had mine for a week and it certainly does not dissapoint! the DVT is amazing. Some small software glitched for nor, but nothing that cant be righted with a software update. I would jump right in!

Or just wait a couple months and pickup Jewcati's mutli for cheap. It will be on sale before the first service is due.

[nhbubba]

...pay more in entry fees my first race weekend than I did for the whole setup...

That's a tall order. Kurlon's been keeping the race entry fees really, really low lately.

[Ductard]

Fun info: 2014 250 dynos, remember when these numbers were good for 450s? http://dirtbikemagazine.com/Media/News/250fdynoweb.jpg

Looks like KTM found their top end somewhere between '02 and now.

..also wondering if the lackluster CRF top-end is an easy fix....but they've got 1-2 extra ponies down low.

...I'm fairly new at reading dynos. I mean, it's pretty straightforward and I know what they mean and that generally higher lines = better. I can't look at one and imagine what the performance would feel like with a given power curve (i.e. would the low end power on the CRF make up for the lackluster top end - at least on dirt, or are these results a little of a black eye for honda that year?)

[Kurlon]

Primary takeaway from those curves for me is the Honda plateaus and then falls off if you try and wring it out fully. The Yam does similar but not as pronounced. The other bikes just keep pulling till the rev-limiter spoils the party. Otherwise they're all close enough on the climb up in the meat of the power that I really wouldn't expect much different feel amongst them.

[Ductard]

Precisely what I was asking about, cool. I get what you meant by the newer 450s have caught up / surpassed. If I end up liking the motard thing and my riding ever grows to me wanting to upgrade, good to know about modern motards.

Personally, I would just call up Shell and see which bike they have specified for Rotella.

[xxaarraa]

Personally, I would just call up Shell and see which bike they have specified for Rotella.

ROFL ROFL shit! There have been some very good zingers (I mean, VERY good) on NESR recently, but this one takes the cake!

[LowSider]

Thanks for the info so far guys.

I'll clarify a bit: I have no intentions of going back to racing any time soon. I was just curious as to what people were running on the grid. I also do not do enough trackdays to buy a track only bike, sorry Brian (still need to sell my EX). I want something that would be easy to get a plate for in MA that I can rip around on the street and also take to a few trackdays. I don't mind having to do some upgrades on it to get it to fit my needs (such as the things Kurlon mentioned) since that's half the fun. But, I don't want anything that I have to CONSTANTLY worry about. I looked at the DRZ because of their bullet proof reputation but I think I'd prefer much more performance for a little more stress about maintenance. Parts availability and ability to take a crash well are important too.

The MSRP for the EXC is around 10k so I guess my budget is around there.... even though that seems steep for a dirt bike.

I am half tempted to put some money into my hyper and just keep tooling around on that but it is such a pretty bike and I'd be too guilty about tossing it down the track and it is the 1100 model, I think ringing out a smaller engine would probably be more fun on the street and track anyways.

[cdovego]

Just grab a cheap used drz400sm - $4kish, nothing but smiles in your helmet...and wheelies, lots of wheelies.

[Kurlon]

Just grab a cheap used drz400sm - $4kish, nothing but smiles in your helmet...and wheelies, lots of wheelies.

Agreed, with those goals/uses, a DRZ400SM and if you want to pep it up down the road do a carb swap to de-choke it.

[LowSider]

But I swore to myself I'd never do another Carb'ed bike again!

[Kurlon]

Hah, well... I can point you to the resources to convert one to EFI?

Or find a 640/690 KTM?

[cdovego]

But I swore to myself I'd never do another Carb'ed bike again!

It's my go to bike and it's bone stock - starts every time and works.

[LowSider]

The 690 seems like a big bike, might as well keep the hyper at that point, no?

[cdovego]

Agreed, with those goals/uses, a DRZ400SM and if you want to pep it up down the road do a carb swap to de-choke it.

I'd like to utilize your services. The only thing I don't love is that it backfires on decel. Doesn't bother me at all but I live in a city where it can be mistaken for gun shots and that's mean when you're in traffic around family vehicles.

[nhbubba]

There's a ton of info on the web about carb swaps for the DRZ. In my experience, you can take the most popular advice for jetting and just run with it. It seems close enough to be good to go.
I swapped for a larger CV carb from a KLR650. Not as much bang as the flat-slide a-la the E models. But way less bucks too. I'm happy. Bike runs very well.

If EFI is your thing AND you're looking for something well supported by the OE's. There is also the WR250. That was offered in a Sumo 'x' trim as well as the dirt bike/dual sport trim. I've seen one street ridden with a very happy rider aboard.

Also you could sumo a KTM 350 EXC-F. I had the pleasure of riding a 350 XCW-F in the woods and on the street for a short section. Awesome bike. Very smooth EFI once you get used to there actually being power behind the throttle.

Really, there are just so many really great bikes out there. If your budget really is in the $10k ballpark, then you really have a shit-ton of great options. I think.

[Paul_E_D]

The 690 seems like a big bike, might as well keep the hyper at that point, no?

Yes, I went from a 690smc to a hyper(821). They are similar, but the hyper is a muuuuch better street bike. No point in making that step.

[csmutty]

I don't know if the drz has enough power to tickle your fancy. I tried one and meh.

[nick5446]

Any idea what this means?

Quote Originally Posted by Random SXV Craigslist Post View Post
Engine number 06991 (if you know these bikes, you know this is a great thing)

The SXV's sort of have "good", "better" and "best" engines. The low numbers have the notorious bad sealant and improperly machined cases, the mid numbers have improved sealant, but the same cases, and the high numbers have improved sealant and improved cases. That's a high number, meaning it's a new engine.

Edit: here you go: 07 SXV 450 black sealant?
SXV 550s:

#2600 and up - updated starter gears (starting in Feb '07)
#4519 and under - early style cases/orange sealant
#4520 to #6836 - early style cases/black sealant (starting in April '07)
#6837 and up - new style cases/black sealant