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Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

  1. #276
    Lifer
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Nice!

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  2. #277
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    It’s significant unless viewed through the ADV prism.
    I think you might be a little misinformed.

    They purposely renamed the 450L the 450RL in 2020 because the engine was pretty much derived from the 450R. The CR of the 450R is 12.5:1, the CR for the 450RL is 12.0:1.

    That's not a significant difference when you look at the CRF250R (13.7:1) vs the CRF250L (10.7:1). THAT is a significant difference.

    His point, while maybe a little exaggerated, does stand.

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  3. #278
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    The R and Rx have a CR of 13.5:1, the X and RL are 12.0:1.

    They are all derived from the same platform, but they are fairly unique from each other regarding service intervals.

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  4. #279
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    The R and Rx have a CR of 13.5:1, the X and RL are 12.0:1.

    They are all derived from the same platform, but they are fairly unique from each other regarding service intervals.
    My mistake, you are right about the CR of 13.5. I was looking at the older model. But the point still stands that the CRF450RL and CRF450R are significantly closer in their "raciness" than the 250 models.

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  5. #280
    Wizard loudbeard's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    I guess. I have a couple of hours on a 2019 CRF450X, a buddy just bought one in the fall and we switch bikes from time to time. I don't see why it would be unhappy as a dual sport. When we ride out of his house, we have several miles of back roads we ride to the trails. It's perfectly happy on pavement. Droning along at 50 mph, holding a line just fine. I would think nothing of riding it to town or whatever. It's still a dirt bike, but it's just fine as a dual sport.

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  6. #281
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by loudbeard View Post
    I guess. I have a couple of hours on a 2019 CRF450X, a buddy just bought one in the fall and we switch bikes from time to time. I don't see why it would be unhappy as a dual sport. When we ride out of his house, we have several miles of back roads we ride to the trails. It's perfectly happy on pavement. Droning along at 50 mph, holding a line just fine. I would think nothing of riding it to town or whatever. It's still a dirt bike, but it's just fine as a dual sport.
    Yeah that's basically what it was built for, local trails with some pavement mixed in.

    The real test, at least in my mind, is "would you want to take it on the TAT?". Or even on a 1000-1500 mile overnight/weekend ride. You certainly could, and others have. I personally wouldn't want to have to carry enough extra shit to do a bunch of oil changes on the move. Most other dual sports can go thousands of miles before needing maintenance. That's really what sets it apart in my mind, and what makes it much more racy than dual sporty.

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  7. #282
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    I agree, it's not built for that, pretty good choice for New England dual sporting.

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  8. #283
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by dankatz View Post
    What I don't understand is why the CRF300L is different than the one in Thailand. The Thai version has the LED headlight and blinkers and looks to have lost more weight. It looks more like the CRF450L
    On the lighting front most of that comes from the DOT and the US requirements for lighting being significantly different then the rest of the world

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  9. #284
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    On the lighting front most of that comes from the DOT and the US requirements for lighting being significantly different then the rest of the world
    That explains the blinkers. It doesn't really explain why the LED headlight was cut from the base CRF in the Thai market, because it was cut on the Euro model too.

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  10. #285
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    On the lighting front most of that comes from the DOT and the US requirements for lighting being significantly different then the rest of the world
    It looks like the Thai version borrowed from the CRF450L which is DOT approved, so I still don't understand. Maybe, cost savings.

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  11. #286
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    That explains the blinkers. It doesn't really explain why the LED headlight was cut from the base CRF in the Thai market, because it was cut on the Euro model too.


    Quote Originally Posted by dankatz View Post
    It looks like the Thai version borrowed from the CRF450L which is DOT approved, so I still don't understand. Maybe, cost savings.
    That is a distinct possibility though LED options could be cheaper at this point

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  12. #287

    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    This is the best thread on NESR right now!

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  13. #288
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    This is the best thread on NESR right now!
    That’s because the KTM midsized twins has gone a bit flat...outside of a new 890 ADVR sitting in Aria’s living room of course

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  14. #289

    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    The real test, at least in my mind, is "would you want to take it on the TAT?". Or even on a 1000-1500 mile overnight/weekend ride.
    690/701!

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  15. #290
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    690/701!
    I told my wife when I bought my CRF250L Rally that if I end up using it a lot in 2021 that I might end up selling it and buying a a 690/701. The only thing that I'm concerned about is reliability. Reading all the horror stories on advrider doesn't help.

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  16. #291
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    If Honda came out with a 450L Rally with oil change intervals in the thousands of miles rather than 600 miles (which would probably only require a bigger sump), I'd change my tune.
    I'm surprised someone hasn't made an extended sump for these things

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  17. #292
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    I told my wife when I bought my CRF250L Rally that if I end up using it a lot in 2021 that I might end up selling it and buying a a 690/701. The only thing that I'm concerned about is reliability. Reading all the horror stories on advrider doesn't help.
    What kind of reliability issues are the ADV crowd seeing with the 690/701 variants? My '17 701SM hasn't given me an ounce of issue up until this point and I have some relatively spirited miles on it.

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  18. #293
    Lifer
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    I told my wife when I bought my CRF250L Rally that if I end up using it a lot in 2021 that I might end up selling it and buying a a 690/701. The only thing that I'm concerned about is reliability. Reading all the horror stories on advrider doesn't help.
    How do you like the rally?

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  19. #294
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    What kind of reliability issues are the ADV crowd seeing with the 690/701 variants? My '17 701SM hasn't given me an ounce of issue up until this point and I have some relatively spirited miles on it.
    I think the biggest issue people complain about is the clutch slave. Everyone on advrider tends to agree that an aftermarket slave cylinder is a requirement.

    Other than that, seems like a slew of odd issues such as electrical, bad fuel mapping, false neutrals, melted plastics from hot exhaust, CS shaft leaks, flaky rocker arm bearings, some random tranny issues I've heard about (shift star something or other?).

    Granted a lot of those complaints seem to be focused on the older models.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    How do you like the rally?
    As a dual sport and light adventure bike, I think it's a fantastic package that is only let down by the atrocious suspension. That said, getting the suspension sorted is only about $1000 for a full Racetech or Ohlins solution. I got it at a bargain though, so it's worth it to invest the money in better suspenders eventually.

    A lot of people complain about the weight, but after coming off a 600lb Super Adventure, 340lb is plenty lightweight for the type of trail riding I do (mostly class 6 roads).

    The only other thing I could complain about is the rider triangle is pretty cramped at 6'2". Standing on it feels like my hands are holding on to my knees, I'm so close to the handlebars. The pegs need to be moved aft for us taller folk (which they did on the CRF300L as I understand).

    And of course it looks pretty cool IMO.

    I got it cheap enough that I feel comfortable that I'll make money or at least break even if I decide to sell it.

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  20. #295
    Lifer
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    I've seen a lot of reports of problems with the fuel pumps on the 690 when run on dirty fuel. Arguably this could be an issue with any modern motorcycle. A pre-filter is probably called for if going anywhere exotic with anything. But some claim you should be carrying a spare fuel-pump if roaming on a 690. IMO that isn't a spare I would normally carry.

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  21. #296
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    I think the biggest issue people complain about is the clutch slave. Everyone on advrider tends to agree that an aftermarket slave cylinder is a requirement.
    It's 2020. Why can't OEMs produce a decent clutch slave? I have Ducatis, so I'm as much to blame as anyone, but it's hard to fathom why such a seemingly simple part is still a problem.

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  22. #297
    Lifer
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post
    What kind of reliability issues are the ADV crowd seeing with the 690/701 variants? My '17 701SM hasn't given me an ounce of issue up until this point and I have some relatively spirited miles on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    I think the biggest issue people complain about is the clutch slave. Everyone on advrider tends to agree that an aftermarket slave cylinder is a requirement.

    Other than that, seems like a slew of odd issues such as electrical, bad fuel mapping, false neutrals, melted plastics from hot exhaust, CS shaft leaks, flaky rocker arm bearings, some random tranny issues I've heard about (shift star something or other?).

    Granted a lot of those complaints seem to be focused on the older models.



    As a dual sport and light adventure bike, I think it's a fantastic package that is only let down by the atrocious suspension. That said, getting the suspension sorted is only about $1000 for a full Racetech or Ohlins solution. I got it at a bargain though, so it's worth it to invest the money in better suspenders eventually.

    A lot of people complain about the weight, but after coming off a 600lb Super Adventure, 340lb is plenty lightweight for the type of trail riding I do (mostly class 6 roads).

    The only other thing I could complain about is the rider triangle is pretty cramped at 6'2". Standing on it feels like my hands are holding on to my knees, I'm so close to the handlebars. The pegs need to be moved aft for us taller folk (which they did on the CRF300L as I understand).

    And of course it looks pretty cool IMO.

    I got it cheap enough that I feel comfortable that I'll make money or at least break even if I decide to sell it.
    This time last year I swear they were like $4100 brand new, now they’re almost six. Shoulda pulled the trigger last year.

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  23. #298
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by SRTie4k View Post
    I think the biggest issue people complain about is the clutch slave. Everyone on advrider tends to agree that an aftermarket slave cylinder is a requirement.

    Other than that, seems like a slew of odd issues such as electrical, bad fuel mapping, false neutrals, melted plastics from hot exhaust, CS shaft leaks, flaky rocker arm bearings, some random tranny issues I've heard about (shift star something or other?).

    Granted a lot of those complaints seem to be focused on the older models.
    I have also seen the multitude of complaints about the clutch slave in 701 groups I am part of. Knock on wood I have not experienced that issue myself, yet.

    The false neutrals and possibly the random tranny issues (shift star something or other?) I have experienced on occasion however I have learned that a positive shift made firmly with intent and my bike doesn't have the issue, lazy shifts is when these seem to happen. I did read about the shift star replacement being the solution for this if positive shifting doesn't do the trick.

    The other items are new to me, thank you for the info. That being said the factory exhaust does get ridiculously hot so I can imagine it melting plastics, gear etc. if people are not careful. I have melted my skin off a couple of times on it and it is not pleasant.

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  24. #299
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    This time last year I swear they were like $4100 brand new, now they’re almost six. Shoulda pulled the trigger last year.
    Here's a dealer asking $4500 for a lightly used one.

    A little less local, but $5k for a new 2018 Rally.

    There seem to be a lot of 2019 leftovers still out there on cycle-trader.

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  25. #300
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about dual sport/ ADV bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Gixxer View Post
    This time last year I swear they were like $4100 brand new, now they’re almost six. Shoulda pulled the trigger last year.
    Yeah they were blowing them out a while back before the pandemic.

    The used market is absolutely bonkers on them right now. I got mine in October for $3850 with a Seat Concepts seat and a rack, which I thought was a pretty good deal given the used market status at the time.

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