If you have been down at a trackday, and covered by Mass. insurance...

[WordTooYoMamma]

I am continuing an ongoing battle with Arbella insurance company and its condescending claims people. I was told by my agent that I was covered for my track days, he still says I am covered and has said so to the claims people, yet they are still being resilient. I've received two letters. One stating the auto policy they are using to deny me, and the second stating the letters I have in my defense don't mean shit to them.

Basically:
We will not pay if an accident occurs while an
auto covered under this Part is being operated in any prearranged of organized
racing speed, stunting or demolition contest or activity or in practice or
preparation for any such contest or activity.

This is all I am asking. I dont need a bunch of bullshit about why I shouldn't be covered. I will however accept reasons I should be covered

If you have had an accident at a track day and successfully went through insurance, what company did you have, and how smoothly did it go. What did they require from you, if anything? How long did it take? If they all use the same auto policy I don't see how some can be covered and others not...

[rolker]

Ok, what the fuck is wrong with you people. If you are going to ride a vehicle beyond you abilities and crash it why do you expect the insurance company to pay you and jack up my rates? I never brought a bike to the track that I wasn't ready to total.

Sorry I wasn't born in this country so I don't quite understand this lack of personal responsibility people seem to have here...

[WordTooYoMamma]

Wirelessly posted (Tilt: HTC-ST7377/2.10.502.4 (93577) Opera/9.7 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en))

It wouldn't be a big deal if I wasn't told that I would be covered from my agent... and thanks for skipping the "I dont need a bunch of bullshit about why I shouldn't be covered". So yea my lack of responsibility stopped when I asked my insurance agent if I would be able to participate on a closed course event and be covered and got a definitive yes from him months before I participated in one. So am I wrong to be a little reluctant to wonder why I was told one thing and had another thing done to me?

[RandyO]

Basically:
We will not pay if an accident occurs while an
auto covered under this Part is being operated in any prearranged of organized
racing speed, stunting or demolition contest or activity or in practice or
preparation for any such contest or activity.

maybe if you got a letter from the track day organizers deposing the fact that a track day is not practice for racing, speed, stunting or demolition, rather practice and training for improving street riding skills

and maybe a letter to the insurance comission requesting they investigate your insurance companies bait & switch sales tactics

[The Snowman]

Talk to Eric (Firebolt), you know, the guy you went down in front of? He made a successful claim with his insurance company.

[G21forme]

Ok, what the fuck is wrong with you people. If you are going to ride a vehicle beyond you abilities and crash it why do you expect the insurance company to pay you and jack up my rates? I never brought a bike to the track that I wasn't ready to total.

Sorry I wasn't born in this country so I don't quite understand this lack of personal responsibility people seem to have here...

And how does this post help? Oh you are just being a dick, got it.

[Doc]

I think you should have got the bike home and put it out in the street and then called a cop and made an accident report. Then you would be covered.

I too don't expect my insurance to cover any on track activity BUT you got the ok from your agent (hopefully in writing) so it should work out for you. I would hope...

[obsolete]

maybe if you got a letter from the track day organizers deposing the fact that a track day is not practice for racing, speed, stunting or demolition, rather practice and training for improving street riding skills

and maybe a letter to the insurance comission requesting they investigate your insurance companies bait & switch sales tactics

This and also, would the state Attorney Generals office have any pull with this?

[Stromper]

An insurance policy is a legal contract

YOU have to study the actual policy looking for a sentence that addresses this situation. If there is an exclusion then they won't pay. That is the contract YOU agreed to period.

If the mater is not addressed and they say that you are covered for damages then you may have a case for the state insurance board.

Get your bike fixed and keep photos and meticulous records because even if the insurance bureau rules in your favor it will be years before you get any money

[The Snowman]

I think you should have got the bike home and put it out in the street and then called a cop and made an accident report. Then you would be covered.

I too don't expect my insurance to cover any on track activity BUT you got the ok from your agent (hopefully in writing) so it should work out for you. I would hope...

Thanks for the tip on how to commit fraud. NO wonder insurance rates are what they are.

IMO, you should get the exact ruling form your insurance COMPANY, (not agent) BEFORE you do a track day and risk your pretty street bike.

[CEO]

I made a claim a couple years ago.

You were at a closed course, non-competitive, non-timed, advanced rider training course.

It's like taking the Advanced MSF ERC or the Total Control course... and they'd cover you for those, right?

I think you should have got the bike home and put it out in the street and then called a cop and made an accident report. Then you would be covered.

Doc sucks... really.

[TTD]

This is what is on my FAQ page regarding this:

QUESTION: Will my bike insurance cover my bike if I crash?

ANSWER: Maybe. The key element that lets them cover you is that our track days are NOT competitive and are NOT Race Practice. Therefore, it is considered more like rider training. In the past, just directing your insurance company to this website has been enough to prove your case. Ultimately, however... this is between you and your insurance company. The key is to make them understand that controlled track days like ours are going to improve safety and lower claims by putting more qualified riders on the road. Having said all this, however, our experience has been that it is cheaper to pay for the repairs yourself in the long run. Your insurance company may pay, but then raise your rates or decline you future coverage.

-------

PS: Notice the part that it's between you and your insurance company. Please leave us (trackday providers) out of it.

[Doc]

Thanks for the tip on how to commit fraud. NO wonder insurance rates are what they are.

IMO, you should get the exact ruling form your insurance COMPANY, (not agent) BEFORE you do a track day and risk your pretty street bike.

Sarcasm does not play well here does it.

[TTD]

Having said the above... I would also recommend getting a written statement from your agent before participating. However, even this may not hold up as most company contracts say it cannot be modified by its agents.... but the agent will fight harder if they put it in writing for you.

[KB]

I wish I could really say what I want but I don't want to get banned for life.

KB

[scottieducati]

State Farm is the shit. That is all.

[Pittenger5]

Ok, what the fuck is wrong with you people. If you are going to ride a vehicle beyond you abilities and crash it why do you expect the insurance company to pay you and jack up my rates?

Roland, I know youre a nice guy, and dont mean to sounds like a dick, but isnt that the purpose of insurance? If someone crashes on the street for any reason, arent they gonna go through insurance? If they allow you to claim for closed course whatever, why WOULDNT you go through insurance? Thats the whole point of having it.

[CEO]

I wish I could really say what I want but I don't want to get banned for life.

KB

Pussy

[Eddie]

If you were on an non-timed, non-race event taking taking classes from MSI I can't see what the problem might be. Really don't. I am sure that your MSI can issue you a statement.

[qqac]

Roland, I know youre a nice guy, and dont mean to sounds like a dick, but isnt that the purpose of insurance? If someone crashes on the street for any reason, arent they gonna go through insurance? If they allow you to claim for closed course whatever, why WOULDNT you go through insurance? Thats the whole point of having it.

Insurance rates are calculated based on risk. The risk involved in street riding has been analyzed by the insurance company actuaries. Racing, or racing practice, where the goal is to ride as fast as you can, right to the edge of your abilities, involves a different level of risk that hasn't been incorporated into the rates. Because it is a controlled environment, the track might be safer from a personal injury perspective, but it is probably more hazardous to your bike.

[Pittenger5]

Racing, or racing practice, where the goal is to ride as fast as you can, right to the edge of your abilities, involves a different level of risk that hasn't been incorporated into the rates.

Except we're talking about track days, where for many the goal is to not ride as fast as you can, but to help establish and learn the limits of your motorcycle. And trust me, it leads you to be a much safer rider on the street when you know for a fact the bikes ability to get yourself out of many situations outweighs your own.
And as for not being incorporated, if they said that closed course non-timed events are allowed in your policy, they have been incorporated.

[CEO]

where the goal is to ride as fast as you can, right to the edge of your abilities

That is not the point of track days.

[rolker]

First, I apologize for the tone of my initial response. I had a bit of vodka flowing in my veins at that time (Thanks EX mafia!) so I didn't filter my response as I should.

And how does this post help? Oh you are just being a dick, got it.

If you think I'm a dick because of the tone of my response, you're right, that was a bit dickish. Now, if you think I'm a dick because of the unpopular opinion I expressed, go fuck yourself.

Thanks for the tip on how to commit fraud. NO wonder insurance rates are what they are.

That's what I was getting at, in reality, it's not the insurance company that pays for the bike you binned at the track, it's the rest of the policy holders that pay.

Roland, I know youre a nice guy

Except we're talking about track days, where for many the goal is to not ride as fast as you can, but to help establish and learn the limits of your motorcycle. And trust me, it leads you to be a much safer rider on the street when you know for a fact the bikes ability to get yourself out of many situations outweighs your own.
And as for not being incorporated, if they said that closed course non-timed events are allowed in your policy, they have been incorporated.

That is not the point of track days.

We all know that track days are generally safer than racing or practice, but realistically, track days customers come to the track with a spectrum of abilities, goals and willingness to take risks. Some are going to ride much safer than a typical street rider while others are going to push themselves to a point where the odds of crashing will be higher than riding on the street at a sane street pace.

It's no surprise that track days fall in a grey area with insurance companies due to this wide range of risk involved.

[TomBrady]

State Farm is the shit. That is all.

+1

[jwm2k3]

Buy yourself an older ex-race bike. I would not take my street registered motorcycle to the track. I realize a lot of people do, i've cringed at everyone of them i've seen go down. Its just not worth the bullshit you have to go thru.

I know you're gonna say its expensive enough without the cost of a trackbike, but if you stopped paying hookers and didn't have to buy 3 new xbox games a month and shit then you might not be crashing your fucking streetbike and dealing with insurance.

Now if your agent has fucked you...that's the sucky part. I would be standing in the agents office making them feel really sorry.

Good luck.