traction in 40 degree weather?

[FireFly]

If its cold out, I'm guessing the tires can't heat up as much as they would if it were warm out. I was riding yesturday and in 3rd gear close to redline, it felt like the rear end was slighty sliding out. ?? another question....will the suspension on a bike feel dramatically different in colder temps?? the bike seems like its not as smooth lately, could this just be the weather or should I Dr. Kates to treat the problem// Thanks

[bigred875]

take it easy in the cold weather....everything is stiff from your tires to your body...

[Cue Ball]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigred875
take it easy in the cold weather....everything is stiff from your tires to your body... [/QUOTE


I agree 100%, somedays it physically feels like it even takes longer to think on a cold day, I see a hazard and it takes forever to react.

[KB]

Originally posted by FireFly
If its cold out, I'm guessing the tires can't heat up as much as they would if it were warm out. I was riding yesturday and in 3rd gear close to redline, it felt like the rear end was slighty sliding out. ?? another question....will the suspension on a bike feel dramatically different in colder temps?? the bike seems like its not as smooth lately, could this just be the weather or should I Dr. Kates to treat the problem// Thanks

Is this your first bike?

Take it easy in the cold weather.

[Awesome]

damping will be increased in extreme cold. less pressure in the tires will give you a better footprint and heat them up more. I run 30 psi front and rear in the cold and after a short spirited ride they stick pretty well.

[RandyO]

some tires heat up better than others I run Pirelli MT60Rs in cold weather. I also wear heated clothing

properly dressed and outfitted, cold weather riding is no different than warm weather riding other than in cold weather, you have FREE HORSEPOWER

[FireFly]

Originally posted by rmbbikes
Is this your first bike?

Take it easy in the cold weather.

Naa, its just my first time street riding in colder weather with this bike (F4i) I've always only ridden when the weather is warm with the exception of dirt riding throughout my youth, I never payed attention to how the suspension felt when I was younger while dirt riding. I went down hard in the winter on a straight away in some dirt trails when I hit a woop followed by an ice patch on my Yz when I was like 15/16, if I hadn't been wearing a chestprotector, I probably would of got impaled by a jagged pipe sticking out of the ground on the side of the trail( Did alot of riding in deserted sand pits/ dumps).. blah blah blah.. .........I want to learn more about suspension/ Sag, etc.../what to expect with specific settings( approxiamately) GOt any suggestions for Books videos...etc to check out??

[Tabby]

Not as much free horsepower as you would think. Yeah, if you are running FI, it should compensate for the denser air, But that only goes so far. If it is too cold, valuble BTUs get drawn away from the burning charge. If the heat bleeds away, it isn't pushing the piston. Air cooled bikes are fussier in this regard than watercooled bikes. My old gixxer didn't like 55 deg. weather at the drags, but loved 60-65 deg. weather. Some guys who race watercooled two strokes would monitor their water temperature, and cover up part of the radiator if needed. Of course they probably didn't have thermostats. On tires, there was some fun I used to have on the OEM Dunlops on my old Gixxer. When the temps would drop below 30, the tires would be rock hard. A couple times I snapped the throttle to do a little wheelie, and instead of lofting, it would feel like the clutch would slip. No, it was the tire breaking free. So on ocasion, I would be a smart ass, and I would light it up through intersections. HEE, HEE!

[Currently]

Originally posted by FireFly
Naa, its just my first time street riding in colder weather with this bike (F4i) I've always only ridden when the weather is warm with the exception of dirt riding throughout my youth, I never payed attention to how the suspension felt when I was younger while dirt riding. I went down hard in the winter on a straight away in some dirt trails when I hit a woop followed by an ice patch on my Yz when I was like 15/16, if I hadn't been wearing a chestprotector, I probably would of got impaled by a jagged pipe sticking out of the ground on the side of the trail( Did alot of riding in deserted sand pits/ dumps).. blah blah blah.. .........I want to learn more about suspension/ Sag, etc.../what to expect with specific settings( approxiamately) GOt any suggestions for Books videos...etc to check out??

Traxxion has a DVD that does an excellent job explaining how
to tune a suspension.

Google also comes up with some great stuff.

WERA board has some great threads on suspension along with
some classic wars between the suspension gurus such as
Max McAllister, Jim Lindemann and Thermosman

[ChR1s]

When road surface temps are down into the 40s, I've haven't experienced much enhanced traction via lower pressures. 50s? Yeah, a bit. Was spinning up the ZX10's bun w/o trouble this afternoon just by rolling it on. With sporty rubber, I take extreme care when the temps are sub 45°.

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by Tabby
Not as much free horsepower as you would think. Yeah, if you are running FI, it should compensate for the denser air, But that only goes so far.

Fuel injected bikes can make a a good amount more power when the weather is cold. Most modern fuel injection systems on bikes have airbox temperature sensors. When it is hot out, the ECU slightly leans out the mixture because hot air can't burn as much fuel as cold air. It also retards the timing to prevent detonation. That is why a number of modern bikes feel "mushy" for lack of a better word when it is hot out. When it is cold, the ECU richens the mixture and returns the spark advance to normal settings giving you all of your power back. Lots of people use a dry nitrous system that fogs their airbox without any tuning of the fuel system. When you are on the spray, it cools the incoming air and the ECU responds by injecting more fuel. Some factory systems are good for a 40-50 shout without additional tuning.

Carbureted bikes can't adjust their mixture on the fly but the denser air improves combustion especially if the bike is running a touch on the rich side. You can still see decent improvements in horsepower.

In regards to the original topic, certain tires are a lot better in the cold then others. The factory Dunslops on my 12R were nothing short of scary in cold weather until you got them heated up (which took forever plus a day and a half). I could break them loose pretty much at will without much effort. Since then I have switched to Perelli Diablo Corsas I have had much better results. Even in below freezing weather before given a chance to heat up, they have excellent grip, enough to power wheelie without leaving a darkie. Granted if you wack the throttle you can still make it slip but the tire is far superior to the D208.

[FireFly]

SO thats what the AIT sensor on the air box does.. cool I kinda new generally what its purpose was but not how it functioned thanks for the info.

[FireFly]

Originally posted by ChR1s
When road surface temps are down into the 40s, I've haven't experienced much enhanced traction via lower pressures. 50s? Yeah, a bit. Was spinning up the ZX10's bun w/o trouble this afternoon just by rolling it on. With sporty rubber, I take extreme care when the temps are sub 45°.

I didn't think this would even be that much of a concern riding in a straight line with a 600 where theres little low end power, guess I was wrong.

[FireFly]

Originally posted by Currently
Traxxion has a DVD that does an excellent job explaining how
to tune a suspension.

Google also comes up with some great stuff.

WERA board has some great threads on suspension along with
some classic wars between the suspension gurus such as
Max McAllister, Jim Lindemann and Thermosman

Awesome, Thanks

[akira700]

cold street+ cold tires + near redline in third gear = crazy dude

That must be nearly 100 mph !
Either your are exagerating or you are lucky to
be in one piece. chill in the chill.

BTW I find my Pilot Powers are great in the cold...
Much better than my old Dunlop 208s.
But build up slow.

[ancosta]

I can say that on my bike my suspension is significantly stiffer when its in the 30s or colder.

In this weather & road conditions, I ride as if I am carrying a passenger.

If I were you I'd tiptoe gently on the roads now, regardless of how warm or cold it is. They are full of salt, sand, debris, let alone the temperature. Also if it has been cold for days and then it is 50 all of a sudden, I don't think you're riding on a 50-degree substrate.

Regarding bike suspension, my view is I'd rather pay an expert and get expert work and results. If I had a massive abundance of spare time maybe I'd do the work myself...?

Good luck!

[JeffL]

I went out riding yesterday when it was about 30 out, roads at this point cant be much warmer than 40 if that? I did a quick 20 mile loop just to get out and test the bike, and by the time I got home, my tires were not noticeably warm to the touch at all, I knew I wasnt going to have anything near optimal traction, so kept it easy in the corners. I still have 3rd gear hell and did a few roll ons to 90-100. But I'm crazy, and I pump out an impressive 35lbs of torque max, so I didnt have any issues with breaking the rear tire free in a straight line.

So even after a 30 minute ride, I had not noticeably warmed the tires, that tells me to not be stupid while riding up on the edge of the tire.

[Currently]

Originally posted by ancosta


Regarding bike suspension, my view is I'd rather pay an expert and get expert work and results. If I had a massive abundance of spare time maybe I'd do the work myself...?

Good luck!

I disagree with your viewpoint ... the more that I can learn about my bike and my suspension, the better that I can communicate to a suspension expert like our famous Mr. Kates.

Maybe I should say infamous ...

Will I ever be as good as him ... nevah!

However I can ask him questions using his lingo and get answers that I can understand for the most part.

The opposite of that is like having a conversation with my 18 year old son ... "So, Matt, how was your day?"

"Ummm, dunno!"

Or the ass end of my bike is stiffer than a female cat in heat!

[Hardcore]

hey dumbass--when it's cold, tires are like rocks, what do rocks do when thrown on asphalt--they slide!!!!!!!!!
what do all oil fluids do in the cold--they try to freeze + move slower the colder they get, hence shocks + forks!!!!!
stop asking idiotic questions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fuckin newbie morons!!

[FireFly]

If you looked at the post, I mentioned the cold weather affects, I just wanted to know how drastically it did. Just wanted some affirmation of what I already suspected when temps are close to freezing.

[KB]

I think by reading this forum I am getting stoopider!

KB

[RandyO]

who needs traction to ride ?

[ancosta]

Originally posted by Currently
I disagree with your viewpoint ... the more that I can learn about my bike and my suspension, the better that I can communicate to a suspension expert like our famous Mr. Kates.

Your point well taken. I thought of that exact point after I had posted, which I agree with, but didn't make any edit. My understanding Rossi is as good as he is largely due to his ability to communicate well with his engineering team & mechanics. I guess I'm saying that while it's good to understand the supsension, and that would make anyone a better rider and better able to get their bike tuned, I would stick to having a pro do the work at least given my mix of time, money and competency as a suspension mechanic

[tonyd]

I have had better luck with sport touring compound tires (D220)in the cold than with "stickier" sport tires (D208's). 208s never get up to the higher operating temps they are designed for, while 220s are designed to work at lower tire temps.

Obviously at 70F you have the other side of the coin revieled.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by tonyd
I have had better luck with sport touring compound tires (D220)in the cold than with "stickier" sport tires (D208's). 208s never get up to the higher operating temps they are designed for, while 220s are designed to work at lower tire temps.

Obviously at 70F you have the other side of the coin revieled.

stickier rubber is stickier in cold too, I think your problem with the 208s is the profile, sport profiles are more pointy for my contact patch while leaned over, ST tires have a more rounded profile

in cold weather, rounded profiles work better

the best tires I have found for winter are soft motard tires