I have come to understand...

[MissTwisties]

I have been preaching often to people doing high speeds on their motorcycles. I have come to understand (specially after doing a trackday), how the guys feel when they hop on their bikes, and feel the rush of going fast. I am not saying I will EVER agree with people doing high speeds on busy roads with cars all around, or in neighborhoods (or school zones) with kids playing in front back yards. That is just plain stupid and irresponsible. I also know that it's only a few assholes who will do that kind of shit, not most of the riders out there. But I will understand next time, and won't preach, to the ones who are still experienced riders, who enjoy doing high speeds when they feel it's safer to do so. It's your life, your safety. I just hope nobody ever gets hurt resulting from those high speeds run.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...I apologize if I ever pissed anyone off by doing my preaching about them "going too fast".

[OreoGaborio]

even though i'm too new to have been preached upon.... i believe i speak for everone who has by sayging.... appology accepted..................................................

[MissTwisties]

well, it's not that I've preached at someone in particular (maybe just a few times in 2 years), but I was basically bitching about high speeding in general...

[OreoGaborio]

yeah i hear ya...........................






































everyone kiss & make up

[rebelpacket]

Accepted...

I know what you mean. I dont consider myself a "fast" rider, but I feel I'm competent on the street.

Ocassionally I'll ride with some slower people, and they'll tell me I'm a asshole for going so fast, and then proceed to tell me about all the risks involved in riding on the street.

The thing is, when you feel in control, and when you can look ahead, and know how much braking force your going to need to stop if something pops out here, or there, or if your going to fast into this corner/etc, then you dont feel uncomfortable going so fast.
You can achive these skills by riding thousands of miles on the street, or just in a few track days. And suddenly that realization comes over you, that you can ride IN control, faster on the street, and still be as safe as you would be going slower.

Its really hard to explain, but I think you understand now...

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by rebelpacket
You can achive these skills by riding thousands of miles on the street, or just in a few track days. And suddenly that realization comes over you, that you can ride IN control, faster on the street, and still be as safe as you would be going slower.

Or, at least, you can achieve the *perception* of having these skills, until a car stops short in front of you, or pulls out in front of you, or you hit a patch or sand or a tar snake, and all the sudden you realize your "safe but in control pace" isn't, and you're Not As Good As You Think You Are

<shrug> At least, that's what happened to me. Seems to hit most at around the 12-24 month mark as far as saddle time, IMLE.

Seems to me there's a ceiling to how fast you can ride on the street and be safe, regardless of your experience or skill level. And no matter how good you get, no matter how many trackdays you might have or even if you're an expert racer, if you have any sense of self-preservation you're never going to be as fast as the balls-to-the-wall street riders who don't give a shit what happens around the next corner as long as their sliders get scuffed.

Anyway that's just how it seems to me, maybe things'll change as I get more experience. But I doubt it. I see a lot of fast, safe, experienced riders, and I see a lot of faster, unsafe, inexperienced riders. Something tells me there's something the former know that the latter haven't got yet.

[MissTwisties]

honclfibr...that's the way I feel. I understand exactly what you're saying. But riding after a trackday, I feel more confident on my bike, I see now how easy it can be to go "faster". I see now how they feel going fast. It doesnt mean I'll go faster on the streets, because I do not feel safe with all the cagers everywhere, animals, or kids jumping in front of me from nowhere, etc. you never know what will be in your way and you might not even see it coming at you. But at least, it will help me to stop bitching to people who are faster on the streets, like I said, it all depends of "where" they speed. I'll never agree with the ones speeding in populous areas where they not only put themselves in danger (that's their business) but also the others in danger (that's everyone's business). I just hope everyone is safe...

[hohum]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I see a lot of fast, safe, experienced riders, and I see a lot of faster, unsafe, inexperienced riders. Something tells me there's something the former know that the latter haven't got yet.

Yeah, the latter either haven't figured out that an offing even at 35 mph can hurt like hell, never mind at 100+ (I have had one of those on the steet, and I NEVER want that to happen again... If it wasn't for my gear, I wouldn't be here to even talk about that), or they just don't care (if not due to ignorance, than due to a lack of self preservation instinct)

And yeah, it seems to happen somewhere around the 12 - 24 months in the saddle mark for some odd reason

In any case, my rule of thumb has always been at a minimum, if I wouldn't take this road this fast in my car (and I race my car so I know the limits of traction for four wheels VERY well, and never push beyond say 7/10ths on the street) I really shouldn't be going this fast on the bike, and yeah, that means I only take the 25mph twisties at say a max of 50mph on rare occasion, and the distribution of how fast you take any given type of turn should be more like an even bell curve where at rare times you take that type of turn at 20 mph, and at rare times you take that type of turn at 50mph, but the curve shouldn't be skewed to the faster speeds, at least on the street...

Buy my philosophy is to let everyone ride their own ride. Riding a motorcycle is all about assessing your PERSONAL level of risk, and that level of allowable risk is different for every person, and while someones level of risk may seem unacceptable to you, that type of "risk assessment" is inherently personal and no matter how much you lecture, people will never learn because its a lesson they need to learn for themselves... kinda like when you know your best friends significant other is the "wrong" person, but no matter what you do, there's no way you could explain to them this fact...

Cheers,
Chris

[stoinkythepig]

You folks are thinking too much. Go out and ride (safely). Sun's out and it's a beautiful day, at least here in Westford MA. Looking forward to the ride home.

[rebelpacket]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
[B]Or, at least, you can achieve the *perception* of having these skills, until a car stops short in front of you, or pulls out in front of you, or you hit a patch or sand or a tar snake, and all the sudden you realize your "safe but in control pace" isn't, and you're Not As Good As You Think You Are

Funny you should bring that up. I recently had a accident that totaled my SV1000S. Basically, exactly the scenario you described. Lady pulled out in front of me. Difference is, it wouldnt have mattered if I had spent 2 hours in the saddle, or 2,000. She pulled out right in front of me. I didnt even have time to reach for the brake, or depress the rear brake.

Its the modicum of risk we take, every time we thumb the starter.

When someone pulls out in front of you, and there simply isnt any time to do anything other than get wide-eyed and wince, it really doenst matter if your a good rider, or a bad rider. However, there is a big difference between being able to ride "spirted" through your favorite roads, and avoid obstacles, debris, and judge corners good.

Does any of this make sense?

[Kham]

"DONT KNOCK TILL YOU TRY" LESSON.

[Paul_E_D]

That's just plain WRONG! <MSF instructor RANT approaching>

A car pulling out in front of you so closely that you can't react is a gross rider error. You should be scanning actively, looking for opportunities for bad drivers.

If you can't see enough to know if someone is pulling out, then they can't see you either. set an appropriate pace for that situation.

You have the power to evaluate a situation and slow down, move to a position on the road that has better sight lines, find an ecape route for such an incident.

<MSF Rant over>

[Kham]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Or, at least, you can achieve the *perception* of having these skills, until a car stops short in front of you, or pulls out in front of you, or you hit a patch or sand or a tar snake, and all the sudden you realize your "safe but in control pace" isn't, and you're Not As Good As You Think You Are

<

accident is different kind of control or NOT in control.

[TheIglu]

As I found out on Monday, "shit happens". True, it was my fault and no other, but you can never be 100% safe on a motorcycle.

Just ride at a decent pace and accept the consiquences of your actions.

BTW, Alex, welcome to NESR!

[rebelpacket]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
That's just plain WRONG! <MSF instructor RANT approaching>

A car pulling out in front of you so closely that you can't react is a gross rider error. You should be scanning actively, looking for opportunities for bad drivers.

If you can't see enough to know if someone is pulling out, then they can't see you either. set an appropriate pace for that situation.

You have the power to evaluate a situation and slow down, move to a position on the road that has better sight lines, find an ecape route for such an incident.

<MSF Rant over>

WHOA. Let me set the tone for you. I was going very slowly. Through a intersection. I was turning left. I had the green arrow. I scanned ahead to see if there was any traffic that could pose a threat. There was nothing. I slowly (20mph) coasted through the left turn onto a side street, looking through the corner, to see what was up ahead. As soon as I could see the entire road, there was a white blur in front of me, and I was on the ground in mucho's pain.

MSF nothing. A driver didnt look, was speeding, and cut left across my lane right in front of me. Rant all you want about prevention, and silly squid kids. But the bottom line on this accident is, I would have had to be going 5 miles per hour to avoid it. Do you go FIVE miles per hour through interesections, or turns onto side streets?

TheIglu: I've been on here awhile, just havnt posted. Long time no ride with you! Thought you should know, since the SV is dead and gone, I'm actually buying a 1999 Ducati 900 SuperSport. Yellow, same color as your old one.

[Kham]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
That's just plain WRONG! <MSF instructor RANT approaching>

A car pulling out in front of you so closely that you can't react is a gross rider error. You should be scanning actively, looking for opportunities for bad drivers.

If you can't see enough to know if someone is pulling out, then they can't see you either. set an appropriate pace for that situation.

You have the power to evaluate a situation and slow down, move to a position on the road that has better sight lines, find an ecape route for such an incident.

<MSF Rant over>

waht you said. just ride smart.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
You folks are thinking too much. Go out and ride (safely). Sun's out and it's a beautiful day, at least here in Westford MA. Looking forward to the ride home.

How's that beautiful day working out for you?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by rebelpacket
Funny you should bring that up. I recently had a accident that totaled my SV1000S. Basically, exactly the scenario you described. Lady pulled out in front of me. Difference is, it wouldnt have mattered if I had spent 2 hours in the saddle, or 2,000. She pulled out right in front of me. I didnt even have time to reach for the brake, or depress the rear brake.

Its the modicum of risk we take, every time we thumb the starter.

When someone pulls out in front of you, and there simply isnt any time to do anything other than get wide-eyed and wince, it really doenst matter if your a good rider, or a bad rider. However, there is a big difference between being able to ride "spirted" through your favorite roads, and avoid obstacles, debris, and judge corners good.

Does any of this make sense?

Of course it does. Sometimes, shit happens. No matter how safe you ride, no matter how experienced you are, you take a risk every time you sit in that seat.

I was mostly recounting my own experience, where I believe I could have reacted better, or avoided the situation all together, if it were not for the hubris of my own confident inexperience.

Just for the record, I'm slow and inexperienced. But I believe I've witnessed "spirited" riding by experienced pilots, and "reckless" riding by inexperienced pilots. The inexperienced riders were faster and more daring, but I was more impressed by watching the experienced riders maintain control and a smooth, unhurried pace at all times. That's what I want to be when I grow up, a controlled, unhurried rider. If I'm kindasorta fast, so much the better, if not, oh well...

It's interesting to note how many of the racers around here sold their streetbikes...

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
How's that beautiful day working out for you?

So far so good. There's hardly anyone back from lunch here. Everybody is out enjoying the sun. Perfect outside, and I really don't mind being in my office knowing what my commute home will be like.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
So far so good. There's hardly anyone back from lunch here. Everybody is out enjoying the sun. Perfect outside, and I really don't mind being in my office knowing what my commute home will be like.

No kidding? It's raining pretty hard here. Looks like it might be clearing up tho...

[stoinkythepig]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
No kidding? It's raining pretty hard here. Looks like it might be clearing up tho...

Really not kidding. It's gorgeous out there. Hope it's headed your way.

[Ken C]

It's important to talk about these things. I can understand the attitude of "Shut up and Ride". And while it would be nice to avoid the topic of crashing, it's the safe rider who encourages the conversation.

And certainly accidents happen. But many times they don't have to. That's when I call them "crashes".

It sounds like Alex experienced the worst kind of incident- one where not much could be done, at least on the surface. Paul's statement about being able to act differently before the impact is true in many (most?) cases.

Developing aggressive scanning techniques and a "sixth sense" can go a long way in predicting problems. But shit happens and even the best of us can get nailed.

[twrayinma]

gorgeous down here in Hudson, MA...

two bikes in the parking lot... silver blackbird (does that even make SENSE?) and a 99-01 blue SV *sniffle*

[Kham]

Originally posted by Ken C


Developing aggressive scanning techniques and a "sixth sense" can go a long way in predicting problems. But shit happens and even the best of us can get nailed.

means no drinking either.

[MissTwisties]

gorgeous out here in Springfield also...but stucked home with the kids.

I also always try to scan very actively in front of me, even when making turns.I am so paranoid on that bike, I want to avoid accidents at any costs. It doesn't keep me from enjoying the ride tho, so it's all good.