Is it a vehicle or is it property? I am hearing it's neither.

[xxaarraa]

Here's the sitrep:

• I have 2 dirt bikes and 3 track bikes. 2 dirt bikes are titled in my name with EPA/ORV stickers. 1 track bike is titled in my name. 2 track bikes are not titled in my name, though I have the titles signed over by the previous owners.
• I have no intention to plate any of them. Negative.
• I want them covered in case of theft. That's all I care about. When I park the trailer with bikes in it on my driveway, or when they get stolen somewhere else because I left the trailer door open, etc.

Here's what I am hearing:

• My home owners insurance provider (liberty) said they do not cover the dirt bikes or track bikes, as they are not considered property supposedly. They said I need to look into comprehensive coverage under a vehicle policy.
• I was told Progressive is the only company that offers offroad vehicle coverage in MA. I called them and they said they don't cover dirt bikes and consider the track bikes as "unacceptable risk" so no go on either.
• My auto policy (Allstate) only covers the trailer itself, not the contents of the trailer. They said I should talk to my home owner's for that.

So how do I get theft coverage for my motorcycles when they are parked in the garage, or in the trailer on the property? Seems like a weird black hole where everyone passes you to someone else. Oh, another interesting thing that came up during my chat with my home owners policy is being able to prove that the property belongs to me. 3 of my bikes are titled in my name, 2 are not. I have the titles signed over, but never titled them in MA. Is that an issue?

[jasnmar]

I'd start again with Homeowners and specifically ask for a rider or scheduled personal property.

From an insurance standpoint this is probably a bit weird. They consider motorcycles vehicles... In your case they are more like "sporting equipment".
If you are talking to someone present them with a situation where you have a high end bicycle... How would you go about creating a rider for that? Let's do it that way...


Proof of ownership... LOL. Can you prove that your couch belongs to you? Where's the title for it?

[Expat]

I am looking for the same coverage. My next stop was to check with the AMA. I would have thought this would be a good niche for some company, basically cover fire and theft from the policy owners residence would be pretty good odds for the insurer!

[Jewcati]

I believe an umbrella policy will cover


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[RandyO]

Lloyds

[nhbubba]

Self insure.
Don't leave the trailer unlocked.

[Stromper]

Though insurance has to comply with some regulations it is JUST a contract between you and the company

Terms etc. are just part of the contract it is or isn't

Same as jewelry or guns with a carve out.

I assume it is the liability portion that would have them NOT cover it. The house etc. might fall on someone but it would not CRASH into someone.

Probably ALL of us should have liability for ANYTHING that moves. I see adds for progressive covering ATV's so I would think that
would be the same for dirt bikes

Remember the republicans ended real bankruptcy. Any big judgement against you, you will pay the rest of your life

ATV Insurance Coverage - Progressive

[Stoneman]

I don't have much to add. But in NH, you certainly can insure ATV's, dirtbikes, snowmobiles, etc...

[xxaarraa]

OK, My Liberty agent told me about this company called "Foremost" insurance that covers snowmobiles and ATVs in New England. I called their local agent and they generally seemed pretty unhelpful. However, they did say that to get coverage for an offroad vehicle, I have to have either my home or auto insurance with them as well. This is turning into a nightmare, so I am most likely going to take bubba's advice and just take my chances.

[cdovego]

CCTV and old people that sit in their yard all day as neighbors is my insurance policy.

[number9]

I'd start again with Homeowners and specifically ask for a rider or scheduled personal property.

I think Ash should do this. Just because someone at Liberty gave you an answer, doesn't mean it's the right answer.

I would ask for a full copy of a (potential) policy and read through the it's-not-really-that-fine print and see what they cover and what they don't.

[xxaarraa]

I'd start again with Homeowners and specifically ask for a rider or scheduled personal property.

From an insurance standpoint this is probably a bit weird. They consider motorcycles vehicles... In your case they are more like "sporting equipment".
If you are talking to someone present them with a situation where you have a high end bicycle... How would you go about creating a rider for that? Let's do it that way...


Proof of ownership... LOL. Can you prove that your couch belongs to you? Where's the title for it?

I think Ash should do this. Just because someone at Liberty gave you an answer, doesn't mean it's the right answer.

I would ask for a full copy of a (potential) policy and read through the it's-not-really-that-fine print and see what they cover and what they don't.

I forgot to mention this. Thanks for the suggestion jasnmar. I did call Liberty and ask about the expensive bicycle scenario. Agent said his father in law races expensive bikes and so claimed to be familiar with this. Said according to Liberty, "non-motorized" vehicles are still considered property so they can add a ryder, but a motorcycle with a motor needs vehicle insurance and is not considered property.

[number9]

I forgot to mention this. Thanks for the suggestion jasnmar. I did call Liberty and ask about the expensive bicycle scenario. Agent said his father in law races expensive bikes and so claimed to be familiar with this. Said according to Liberty, "non-motorized" vehicles are still considered property so they can add a ryder, but a motorcycle with a motor needs vehicle insurance and is not considered property.

Is there a difference if, say, the motor vehicle is off the road for repairs or being restored?

My El Camino is (legally) insured as a restoration project and hasn't (legally) been registered in a few years. And I've heard that you're pretty slow with a wrench..

[xxaarraa]

Is there a difference if, say, the motor vehicle is off the road for repairs or being restored?

My El Camino is (legally) insured as a restoration project and hasn't (legally) been registered in a few years. And I've heard that you're pretty slow with a wrench..

You ask a good and very real question. It makes it a very fine line between what's property and what's a vehicle. Hypothetical situation - something bad happens and the garage burns down, or someone swipes a bike or two. I call in and make a claim on my home owners insurance for "a $6200 engine that was part way being rebuilt" (I blew a motor earlier this year and that's what Seacoast quoted me for a fresh crate motor from factory). I can't possibly see a scenario where the home owners policy could decline coverage.

The wrinkle would be if they want to see paperwork or receipts to show that I paid $6200. Which I won't have, if I want to make a claim on just an engine, or parts, or tools, instead of the bike as a whole. Which brings you back to proving ownership on property. Anyone who has had a claim on property insurance weigh in on what the insurance company wanted to validate your claim? How do they typically go about it? I can't see them just writing you a check for whatever amount you claim?

[Stoneman]

Oh! That reminds me - I was told that if any of our toys (sleds/ATV's) were stolen from our garage this is how it would break down:

-If they were torn down and in the process of restoration or major repairs, our homeowner's would cover them...

-Depending on the coverage of our Recreational Vehicle policy, THAT policy would cover damages & typical theft...

That's with State Farm in NH. Have you called Flo?

[xxaarraa]

You ask a good and very real question. It makes it a very fine line between what's property and what's a vehicle. Hypothetical situation - something bad happens and the garage burns down, or someone swipes a bike or two. I call in and make a claim on my home owners insurance for "a $6200 engine that was part way being rebuilt" (I blew a motor earlier this year and that's what Seacoast quoted me for a fresh crate motor from factory). I can't possibly see a scenario where the home owners policy could decline coverage.

The wrinkle would be if they want to see paperwork or receipts to show that I paid $6200. Which I won't have, if I want to make a claim on just an engine, or parts, or tools, instead of the bike as a whole. Which brings you back to proving ownership on property. Anyone who has had a claim on property insurance weigh in on what the insurance company wanted to validate your claim? How do they typically go about it? I can't see them just writing you a check for whatever amount you claim?

OK, I called Liberty (home owners) again and had a long chat about what you said Number 9. I flat out asked them how I would go about proving that I owned the items that I am making a claim on under home owners personal property coverage. Here is what they said -

• If it has a wheel and a motor, it's not covered. Should go to a vehicle policy.
• If it doesn't have a wheel or motor, it's covered. Proving ownership seems to be a grey area, I couldn't get a straight answer from them. When I asked how I would prove ownership of a power tool an ex got for me 5 years ago, the agent simply said 'we will take your word for it, as long as we don't see any signs of fraud on your account.' She also said that they review the claims to screen out the possibility that I am a business. i.e., if I made a claim that I lost 11 power tools all at once.
• She did point to a "home gallery" app on their website which I could download and use to inventory my personal property and take photos. However, the app doesn't send that inventory to Liberty, it's for my use only. Weird.

So, I could in theory go through and inventory all the valuable pieces of tools / engines / parts / gear in my garage and trailer and make any claims against those, instead of the bikes themselves.

[jasnmar]

Lawnmower. Wheels. Motor. Covered?

[RandyO]

Lawnmower. Wheels. Motor. Covered?

my only experience with a lawnmower claim is the liability arising from of a rock that got thrown

yes, covered by homeowners

[number9]

Lawnmower. Wheels. Motor. Covered?

The other funny thing is that the policy says (or at least Ash described it as) it needs "a wheel and a motor" to be a motor vehicle. Therefore, if it had a motor but no wheels, it would not be a motor vehicle.

[commuter]

My Allstate homeowner's policy covers my 16ft sailboat and trailer, but only while on the property I believe. Outside of that, I'm careful and don't take chances that I don't want to lose. My suggestion is, when away from home, keep it locked up and within sight. There are enough other trailers left unsecured that maybe they will go after the low hanging fruit and leave you alone.

[number9]

I switched from Liberty Mutual to GEICO, because 15 minutes did save me 15% I spoke to someone in their renter's insurance department and specifically asked if a renter's insurance policy covers a dirt bike stored on the property. Their answer was yes, it does, just the same as any other property.

[xxaarraa]

I switched from Liberty Mutual to GEICO, because 15 minutes did save me 15% I spoke to someone in their renter's insurance department and specifically asked if a renter's insurance policy covers a dirt bike stored on the property. Their answer was yes, it does, just the same as any other property.

So you switched your auto policy to Geico, or auto and renter's both? Did not know Geico offered renter's / home owner's policy in MA.

[number9]

So you switched your auto policy to Geico, or auto and renter's both? Did not know Geico offered renter's / home owner's policy in MA.

Switched auto already, just got a quote for renters.