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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Can you have 2 drivers licenses?
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boosten lebaron
I'm looking into this deeper. My neighbor is stuck in this right now and I've been told by a few others it's true. Apparently it's a tax thing. Mass wants the taxes you missed while it was registered in Vermont. So they will issue the buyer with a reg but you as the seller must pay all associated taxes or they won't process tye title meaning the buyer has a big problem. The same appears to be true if you are transferring to yourself. The way out is to prove your a vt resident with a driver's license only. Bills and mail aren't excepted. So it comes down to money. In the case of my neighbor his $60k airstream that he sold that gas always been on a vt reg means he has a monstrous tax and penalty bill he has to pay before they issue a new title to the buyer who has already taken possession of the camper. Talking like a 5 digit bill.
Well this is news. I suppose I'll be keeping my 250s until I die or they do.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boosten lebaron
I'm looking into this deeper. My neighbor is stuck in this right now and I've been told by a few others it's true. Apparently it's a tax thing. Mass wants the taxes you missed while it was registered in Vermont. So they will issue the buyer with a reg but you as the seller must pay all associated taxes or they won't process tye title meaning the buyer has a big problem. The same appears to be true if you are transferring to yourself. The way out is to prove your a vt resident with a driver's license only. Bills and mail aren't excepted. So it comes down to money. In the case of my neighbor his $60k airstream that he sold that gas always been on a vt reg means he has a monstrous tax and penalty bill he has to pay before they issue a new title to the buyer who has already taken possession of the camper. Talking like a 5 digit bill.
Sounds more like a tax lien, title exempt situation. I think Ma is going to have a hard time with that legally in the future.
I had always thought campers were tax exempt as well, though that could also only be an RI thing.
Just as an FYI, I bought my R7 with a Ma prior registration and no title, and had no issues registering and titling it in RI.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
R7
.....Just as an FYI, I bought my R7 with a Ma prior registration and no title, and had no issues registering and titling it in RI.
what year is the R7? I know the RI title laws just changed 01/01/24, but previously they didn't issue titles for model year 2000 or older.... I had misplaced one of my pre 2000 car titles and wanted a new copy, they told me NOPE, we don't do that for pre 2000...
Need to head up to the DMV and see if I can get a copy under the new law.....
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FriskyDingo
what year is the R7? I know the RI title laws just changed 01/01/24, but previously they didn't issue titles for model year 2000 or older.... I had misplaced one of my pre 2000 car titles and wanted a new copy, they told me NOPE, we don't do that for pre 2000...
Need to head up to the DMV and see if I can get a copy under the new law.....
RI title law just changed again starting 01/01/2024. Now all vehicles need a title. There’s a form you can fill out to get a title for a previously non titled vehicle, takes about 2-3 weeks.
When I checked a few weeks ago, there was also wording on the website stating prior proof of ownership (registration) can be used to get a title.
The R7 is a 1999. I applied for a vanity plate, and because my registration number would change, I need to apply for a title before the vanity plate would be issued.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Anyone looking into tribal registrations? That seems like it would be untapped and even untouchable potential if possible.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
According to USPS tracking, all my title transfer documents arrived at the county's PO Box in Rapid City, South Dakota on Friday, 4/26. Their offices are actually closed on Fridays. I received an email this morning around 7am my time (9am in SD) that the documents were received and to call to process payment. I spent roughly 10min on hold and an additional 5 min to confirm all fees due, my mailing address, and to give my CC info. Plate and registration will be in tomorrow's mail and I should get them next week.
I was charged for SD sales tax, title transfer fee, registration fee, plate postage fee, and a credit card processing fee. This totaled $84. If I read their registration fee table correctly, I anticipate the yearly registration fee to be around $16 per year for this motorcycle. In comparison, my other Triumph Tiger cost me $160 in registration alone this year here in the state of CA. In fact, all my registered bikes cost a minimum of $150/year now in CA. Thinking I should change them to SD now that I know the process...
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Just check to make sure CA won't prosecute you for dodging taxes if you switch your other registrations to SD.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Got my plate and registration! Just in time to fly back to Boston and pick up the bike.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
I just renewed my VT regs for 2 more years. I don't think the taxman noticed.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
I just sold a bike with vt tags. Yup, you've got to go pay all the back taxes on it before mass will release the title. So initial sales tax then all excise taxes that you missed. Not a terrible process but it means a trip in person to the worcester tax office. And it was 3 years of back taxes plus whatever fees they tacked on. The seller may get upset since they will be able to register it but the title will never come unless its cleared up on your end.
I no longer have the option of two year registrations on my motorcycle through vt which is new to me but i can still do it for cars.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Why would the seller be responsible for taxes on something you owned?
Also why would Mass care about taxes on something registered in another state?
Like I go buy an OBS from VT it gotta pay taxes from 1997 in mass?
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
I own it and I'm.the seller. I sold to someone in mass but mass wants proof I lived in Vermont via my license which is a mass license because I was exploiting the loophole. They did not care that I owned a condo in Vermont, it was not my primary residence. The buyer registered the bike but I got the call from the title division asking to show proof that I lived in Vermont which I can't because my primary is in mass. For mass to title it for the new buyer I had to pay sales and excuse tax going back to when I registered it in Vermont. If I didn't pay they were not going to issue a title for it. I do not know what would have happened to the buyer at that point. I just paid it in Worcester and everything was fine. Cost me about $500. I have no idea how long they back date to but I suspect it was as far back as they could. Just there way of dealing with the Vermont loophole. Of course if I sold to someone in Vermont of maybe any other state then I don't think I would have had an issue.
.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Since you own the condo how’s that not sufficient that you live (even part time) in VT. Or the vehicle was mainly used/garaged in VT?
Man this blows
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
My primary residence is in mass so that's what mass uses. It would be completely different if I had a Vermont license.
I would love to hear if other people have gotten around this. I've got a few more vehicles I was going to sell but looking at my tax burden now it's just not feasible, better to keep them in my name in Vermont.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boosten lebaron
My primary residence is in mass so that's what mass uses. It would be completely different if I had a Vermont license.
I would love to hear if other people have gotten around this. I've got a few more vehicles I was going to sell but looking at my tax burden now it's just not feasible, better to keep them in my name in Vermont.
start a Vermont based business ? Personally, I just use joint ownership with my brother, if I was lacking that connection, starting a Vermont based consulting business would be my next inquiry
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
I don't think mass would care. The only thing they would accept to prove vermont residency that I didn't have was a driver's license. Didn't matter that I owned a condo, paid by taxes, had vt cable bill, vt insurance for car, bike and home etc. All they would accept for proof was that Vermont license. Nothing else I offered even made them glance at it.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boosten lebaron
I don't think mass would care. The only thing they would accept to prove vermont residency that I didn't have was a driver's license. Didn't matter that I owned a condo, paid by taxes, had vt cable bill, vt insurance for car, bike and home etc. All they would accept for proof was that Vermont license. Nothing else I offered even made them glance at it.
Leave MA out of it, just register and title in VT as a business
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
I can do that no problem now. It's just because I sold it that I'm having the problem and I think that's mostly because I sold to someone from mass. I don't know if I would have problems selling to other states but I'm not looking to find out.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boosten lebaron
I don't think mass would care. The only thing they would accept to prove vermont residency that I didn't have was a driver's license. Didn't matter that I owned a condo, paid by taxes, had vt cable bill, vt insurance for car, bike and home etc. All they would accept for proof was that Vermont license. Nothing else I offered even made them glance at it.
That insane
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Mass Rmv has always been insane, just more so now. I honestly don't blame them for doing what they doing but there has to be a better way. If you call to talk to the Vermont DMV they are very friendly and helpful. Call the mass Rmv and you are treated very much like the enemy and cared for as such.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OneCheekRider
After some research and a few phone calls into Pennington County South Dakota Treasurer's office, I have all required paperwork sent in for out-of-state title transfer.
I did NOT use Dirt Legal. I called them several times to talk about their fees and their process and ultimately they weren't very confidence inspiring on the phone. I figured out I can do this all myself in less time and save me their $500 fee + $50 yearly registration renewal fee that is ontop of any SD fees. Dirt Legal is just a middleman and they may be worth it depending on the title situation as you can grant them power of attorney, but in my case, I didn't see the value.
I'm still not finished as my info needs to get processed and title/plates sent from SD, but if this works the way I think it should, then I would think going through SD is the way to go for any titling issues you may have. I'll update as this plays out for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OneCheekRider
According to USPS tracking, all my title transfer documents arrived at the county's PO Box in Rapid City, South Dakota on Friday, 4/26. Their offices are actually closed on Fridays. I received an email this morning around 7am my time (9am in SD) that the documents were received and to call to process payment. I spent roughly 10min on hold and an additional 5 min to confirm all fees due, my mailing address, and to give my CC info. Plate and registration will be in tomorrow's mail and I should get them next week.
I was charged for SD sales tax, title transfer fee, registration fee, plate postage fee, and a credit card processing fee. This totaled $84. If I read their registration fee table correctly, I anticipate the yearly registration fee to be around $16 per year for this motorcycle. In comparison, my other Triumph Tiger cost me $160 in registration alone this year here in the state of CA. In fact, all my registered bikes cost a minimum of $150/year now in CA. Thinking I should change them to SD now that I know the process...
We definitely need to chat about this at a trackday or lunch. I just spent a boatload more for perm MT registration for my Mustang, but I did do that to save me the time of figuring everything out myself.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mustang
We definitely need to chat about this at a trackday or lunch. I just spent a boatload more for perm MT registration for my Mustang, but I did do that to save me the time of figuring everything out myself.
I take it you went through dirt legal and setup an LLC? The cool thing about MT is once the LLC is setup, adding additional vehicles should be cheap & easy and you only have to renew the LLC each year if your vehicles are on perm registration. I went back and forth on MT vs SD but ultimately there was more effort & money involved to setup the LLC in MT. In my case, a simple title transfer, SD made the most sense and cheap enough that if I wanted to switch to MT (or any state) in the future it wouldn't be a big deal.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OneCheekRider
I take it you went through dirt legal and setup an LLC? The cool thing about MT is once the LLC is setup, adding additional vehicles should be cheap & easy and you only have to renew the LLC each year if your vehicles are on perm registration. I went back and forth on MT vs SD but ultimately there was more effort & money involved to setup the LLC in MT. In my case, a simple title transfer, SD made the most sense and cheap enough that if I wanted to switch to MT (or any state) in the future it wouldn't be a big deal.
I went through Shelby & Son, but yes and set up an LLC. From start to finish, it will have been less than two months (but $1200) for the LLC and perm vanity plates.
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Re: VT loop hole is no longer!
What are the current use cases for doing this? Homologation specials like the R7 that normally couldn't be registered but is this what is used for supermoto conversions or dual sport conversions? What's the car use case?