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VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

  1. #1
    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Throwing around the idea of using the VT registration route to get a title for one of my bikes and have a question.

    When using the VT registration route the vehicle is registered in VT under your name and address in the state you live in correct?

    When you bring the VT registration, with your own name and current in state address to the RMV, and want to transfer it to a title/registration in your current state, nobody at the RMV asks the question of why you have a vehicle registered in VT at your in state address?

    Trying to avoid getting stuck answering questions I don't feel like answering and this came to mind.

    Thanks

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    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Yes, you will have a state of Vermont registration, with an address that matches your driverís license.

    I didnít transfer my Vt registration to my current state, since I donít know for certain in the DMV questions. Just keep in mind that Vt is a 15 year title state, since if whatever youíre registering is over 15 years in old, they wonít issue you a title for it. Your Vt registration number will be the title number if you need to try and get a title in your home state.

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    Lifer TIMMYDUCK's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Your RMV counter person could certainly ask that question for tax purposes.

    I have experienced it and my answer to the counter person was “ to re-establish the chain of custody” which they readily accepted and processed the transaction.

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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Same answers as above ^

    I've shared your concerns about transferring from VT to MA while keeping it in my name with the same address, though it's never proven to be an issue at the RMV. One way around this would be to have a friend or spouse do the VT reg and then sell it to you in MA.

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    Don't bother me! R7's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by nick5446 View Post
    Same answers as above ^

    I've shared your concerns about transferring from VT to MA while keeping it in my name with the same address, though it's never proven to be an issue at the RMV. One way around this would be to have a friend or spouse do the VT reg and then sell it to you in MA.

    You’ll have to pay sales tax again if you sell it and buy it back on paper, just an FYI.

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    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    I've done this many times now. Here is some of my experience.

    You will need a VT address if you plan on insuring your vehicle. I could not find a way around this. My solution was to just go out and buy a cheap ski condo which I have owned for nearly two years and have been to once in that time. Extreme yes but I had my reasons.
    VT will initially give you a temp reg which mass would not accept the couple times I tried. VT will not give you a real reg until.you get it inspected which you can't do until you get insurance.
    The purely accidental, not all the time, way I found around this is to do everything by mail. On occasion they sent me a full reg which can be converted to a mass title immediately but they don't always send it. A VT clerk said it very unusual to get a reg like that but I've gotten them. The problem with using the mail is it takes forever, close to two months usually. They send you a real plate quickly though so you can start driving but the reg is like a month later.
    Going in person let's you try to sweet talk your way into getting what you want within reason. I do this if what I'm doing is very odd, like short numbered vin or if I know I will be explaining something in detail. I can usually walk out with a temp reg and real VT plate this way. The real plate is the bonus, they don't normally give them to you until you get your inspection done.

    To me it seems like there is wiggle room on both sides to get it done quickly but I think it's really up to luck on who you talk to. Mass is really the problem. They want to see an active real VT reg in your name before they convert to a title. Like everything in the mass rmv I think it's teller dependant. You can probably shop around to different tellers before you find one that will take the temp VT reg. I tried at first but with all the covid restrictions now you end up waiting all day or longer to see someone if you don't have an appointment.

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    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    And yes you will need to pay taxes and fees again. That can add up which I why I use the VT reg for a year now and convert when it runs out. Double taxation on your own stuff sucks

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  8. #8

    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by boosten lebaron View Post
    I've done this many times now. Here is some of my experience.
    You're half right. Vehicles get insured without being registered. Insurance doesn't know where you will register it but to be valid it has to be in your state of residence and they presume it will be as such.

    On the other half, Vermont doesn't care that you don't live there and will let you register it with your insurance.

    The "loop whole" while is allowed to be done, does you leave you potentially uncovered and potentially denied coverage in case of an accident. This is a large reason why I've never proceeded with this even though it could be done.

    Insurance won't know that you registered an out of state vehicle and the onus is on you to make it valid in all the forms you sign where you say that all insured vehicles are in the same state as your insurance and your residence. All 3 have to match legally AFAIK. I'm sure there are some exceptions here and there and leeway where they give you time to transfer your insurance/registrations as you move from state to state but

    Quick blurb

    You can't live in one state and have insurance in another
    In general, you need to buy car insurance in your state of residency. Therefore, you should transfer your car insurance and registration if you move to a new state. It's typically illegal to live in one state and register your car in another

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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by boosten lebaron View Post
    I've done this many times now. Here is some of my experience.

    You will need a VT address if you plan on insuring your vehicle. I could not find a way around this. My solution was to just go out and buy a cheap ski condo which I have owned for nearly two years and have been to once in that time. Extreme yes but I had my reasons.
    VT will initially give you a temp reg which mass would not accept the couple times I tried. VT will not give you a real reg until.you get it inspected which you can't do until you get insurance.
    The purely accidental, not all the time, way I found around this is to do everything by mail. On occasion they sent me a full reg which can be converted to a mass title immediately but they don't always send it. A VT clerk said it very unusual to get a reg like that but I've gotten them. The problem with using the mail is it takes forever, close to two months usually. They send you a real plate quickly though so you can start driving but the reg is like a month later.
    Going in person let's you try to sweet talk your way into getting what you want within reason. I do this if what I'm doing is very odd, like short numbered vin or if I know I will be explaining something in detail. I can usually walk out with a temp reg and real VT plate this way. The real plate is the bonus, they don't normally give them to you until you get your inspection done.

    To me it seems like there is wiggle room on both sides to get it done quickly but I think it's really up to luck on who you talk to. Mass is really the problem. They want to see an active real VT reg in your name before they convert to a title. Like everything in the mass rmv I think it's teller dependant. You can probably shop around to different tellers before you find one that will take the temp VT reg. I tried at first but with all the covid restrictions now you end up waiting all day or longer to see someone if you don't have an appointment.
    I think you had really shit luck with this, or I keep having good luck. Either way, it shows how wildly inconsistent the whole thing is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    You’ll have to pay sales tax again if you sell it and buy it back on paper, just an FYI.
    Totally. That's why my bikes are always $500

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  10. #10
    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    My luck is very hit or miss and I realize this. But I have done it enough times to know it's not always a simple thing like is expected. I go on a case by case basis now. If I want it fast and done right but do extra work I go in person. If I can wait and have the luxury of working around potential issues remotely then I do it online. Online is generally better but not always foolproof and is certainly a longer process, I would say two months minimum.

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    Last edited by boosten lebaron; 01-30-23 at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by nick5446 View Post
    I think you had really shit luck with this, or I keep having good luck. Either way, it shows how wildly inconsistent the whole thing is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Totally. That's why my bikes are always $500
    It’s probably been 20 years since I’ve gotten away with a private party bill of sale as a price guide for sales tax, that’s including my most recent Vermont R1 registration. They tax based on NADA value now.

    Also on the insurance comment, I have Foremost and had my 2007 R1 registered in Vt, and Insured at my address in RI. All they asked me, was where the bike would be stored. The ID card had an out of state note on it, I’d assume it was because of the Vt plate. Same company for my Tuono, which is registered in RI, didn’t have the out of state note on the ID card

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  12. #12

    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Also on the insurance comment, I have Foremost and had my 2007 R1 registered in Vt, and Insured at my address in RI. All they asked me, was where the bike would be stored. The ID card had an out of state note on it, I’d assume it was because of the Vt plate. Same company for my Tuono, which is registered in RI, didn’t have the out of state note on the ID card
    I don't think any agent ever bats an eye at the registration and insurance mismatch and they will always let you do it.

    It's not the agents that would be denying the claim later on that you'd have to be battling with either if they denied coverage due to the mismatch.

    I haven't seen any information that allows you to be living in one state and have registration and or insurance in another state and have it be clearly covered per policy

    Feel free to prove me otherwise, I'd love to see it and that could change my course of action.


    I personally deal with the fine print and dont buy policies that can get me denied.

    Many of custom policies I've seen for my specialty car could be cheaper if it's registered or insured as historic or weekend car, but they clearly say they don't allow you to commute to work or do things such as "buy groceries".

    Considering I live right by work and do occasionally stop by a store, the last thing I need is to be denied coverage due to those limitations so I don't go with those policies. Would they ever deny me? Probably not.

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    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    I would love to know of an insurance company in mass that will let you insure a vehicle with an out of state registration. I tried them all. While you may fool an agent or two if you get in an accident your will not have coverage.

    As for proof, after weeks of trying to find a company that would allow me to do such a thing and having no luck I bought a $115k condo in Warren VT just to show residency. I have been to that condo exactly once since I bought it last year. Thats my proof. It was purchased solely to ensure vehicles worth more than it could be made and kept legal.

    Could I have just fooled an agent and tried to get away with it? Maybe but I didn't even find an agent that seemed like I could, it was always pretty cut and dry that in mass you couldn't insure an out of state vehicle.
    Could I have just given VT a random address and gone ahead with it? Probably. Once I register a vehicle in VT I quickly change my mailing address to mass so nothing ever gets sent to my VT address.

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    Last edited by boosten lebaron; 01-30-23 at 06:01 PM.

  14. #14

    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    buying a cheap out of state ski condo, just to be able to issue a license plate for a motorcycle in a state that questionably should not have a license plate to begin with?



    edit: wth, some of VT is still $35k for empty land and over a million for a big nice house.

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 01-30-23 at 06:18 PM.
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    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    It wasn't just a motorcycle I did it for, though there was one motorcycle I needed it to go absolutely smoothly for. I've imported a bunch of cars and motorcycles to sell or to keep. If I see something nice in the UK I will fly over, buy it and ship it here. Then do the VT thing and now it's legally imported. Trying to import through mass is nearly impossible now, too many covid restrictions still in place.
    Trust me, I've more than paid back the initial price of the condo doing this. Some people rent buildings to do things, I buy them.

    And yes I consider VT to be fairly expensive to buy in most areas. If I could have done it another way I would have purchased land by my new York place. 115k will get you an easy 100 acres of pristine land to do whatever you want with.

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    ^ It's my bike and my car tls25rs's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Question that had come up due to previous responses.

    When registering in VT the vehicle needs to be insured in order to get the registration?

    This would make this method not as desirable for me. I am not looking to keep the vehicle registered in VT for any length of time. Hoping to get the VT registration, use the valid road registration from VT to acquire a valid title/registration/insurance in my state of residence. If this isn't possible then I will likely pursue other avenues.

    I did get a chuckle out of the buy a condo in VT so I can register the vehicle there. This will hopefully be a one time deal and I am sadly not well enough off that would make that an option.

    Thanks

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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovchandr View Post
    You're half right. Vehicles get insured without being registered. Insurance doesn't know where you will register it but to be valid it has to be in your state of residence and they presume it will be as such.

    On the other half, Vermont doesn't care that you don't live there and will let you register it with your insurance.

    The "loop whole" while is allowed to be done, does you leave you potentially uncovered and potentially denied coverage in case of an accident. This is a large reason why I've never proceeded with this even though it could be done.

    Insurance won't know that you registered an out of state vehicle and the onus is on you to make it valid in all the forms you sign where you say that all insured vehicles are in the same state as your insurance and your residence. All 3 have to match legally AFAIK. I'm sure there are some exceptions here and there and leeway where they give you time to transfer your insurance/registrations as you move from state to state but

    Quick blurb
    That makes no sense.
    Based on what you’re saying if I have a secondary residence in another state my insurance won’t cover a vehicle registered and insured there? That’s bananas

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    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Vermont issues you a temp registration and paper plate when you register a new to you vehicle with them. To convert it to a real registration and plate you need to get it inspected within 30 days I think. I have a place that makes the inspection a none issue though. The catch is you need to show proof of insurance to get the inspection.
    The temp reg is not sufficient for mass title requirements.
    I would say if you go in person to the VT rmv you will absolutely need to get insurance and get it inspected to get a real reg. If you do it online I would say there is a pretty good chance they will send you real reg and plate, it will just take months and a few phone calls.
    There is always going to be a chance some people have gotten it no problem but it's rare I have had that happen. I can only remember one vehicle, my nsr, that just happened to come with both the real reg and plate via online. Everything else has needed something extra.

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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    That makes no sense.
    Based on what you’re saying if I have a secondary residence in another state my insurance won’t cover a vehicle registered and insured there? That’s bananas
    I don't know what to tell you. Take it up with insurance companies. I don't know the details of multi homes and residencies but I'm pretty sure you can have only one primary residence and most states won't let you register cars that you're not a resident of. VT being one of the exceptions.

    https://www.progressive.com/answers/...car-insurance/

    What if I have homes in two different states?
    If you keep vehicles at both homes, you'll need a separate policy for each state. For example, if you have homes in Massachusetts and Florida and you keep a car at each residence, each vehicle will need its own policy.
    https://www.autoinsurance.org/can-i-...ate-i-live-in/

    Exceptions to the Rule of Registering and Insuring Your Car in the Same State
    While your vehicle’s coverage and registration should be in the same state, there are a few situations where you might be able to get car insurance in another state. These include:

    Military members. Since military members are often on deployment, registration rules are a little different for them. Usually, you register your car in the state you plan to return to once your deployment is over. Find out the best insurance companies for military personnel and veterans.

    Temporary moves. The amount of time you can live in a state before you need to register your car varies, but you usually don’t need to update your registration for a short stay.

    College students. Car insurance for college students also has different rules. Although you’ll probably need to register your car if you bring your vehicle to an out-of-state school, you might be able to stay on a parent or guardian’s policy.
    https://www.consumerinsurancereport....ive-in-another

    Can I get insurance if my car is registered in one state and live in another?
    This simple answer is no. To be insured, you must be living in the same state your car is registered in. You can't purchase your car insurance from another state in hopes of paying cheaper rates as it's considered fraud.

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    Last edited by Vovchandr; 01-30-23 at 07:16 PM.

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    Lifer TIMMYDUCK's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by tls25rs View Post

    When registering in VT the vehicle needs to be insured in order to get the registration?

    This would make this method not as desirable for me.

    Thanks
    Okay let’s stop mixing apples and oranges here .

    What Boosten is doing with the imports is a whole different scenario .

    For you TLS you are simply going to get it registered then transfer said registration to Mass .

    No insurance will be needed nor an inspection to get this accomplished.

    The bike however will not be legal to ride around till the registration is transfered back to Mass because it won’t have insurance on it .

    To be successful you will need to make an in- person appointment.

    I recommend the Springfield, VT DMV at exit 7 of interstate 91.

    You’ll simply need these two form filled out properly :

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi..._Tax_Title.pdf

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi...f_Sale_ODS.pdf

    then some cash to pay the fees and taxes .

    You will walk out with hard plates and a copy of the VT-119 form stamped valid with the costs paid .

    In a week or so a permanent registration card with the sticker for the plate will be mailed out to you .

    Now your ready for Mass RMV.

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    Last edited by TIMMYDUCK; 01-31-23 at 07:12 AM.
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMMYDUCK View Post
    Okay let’s stop mixing apples and oranges here .

    What Boosten is doing with the imports is a whole different scenario .

    For you TLS you are simply going to get it registered then transfer said registration to Mass .

    No insurance will be needed nor an inspection to get this accomplished.

    The bike however will not be legal to ride around till the registration is transfered back to Mass because it won’t have insurance on it .

    To be successful you will need to make an in- person appointment.

    I recommend the Springfield, VT DMV at exit 7 of interstate 91.

    You’ll simply need these two form filled out properly :

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi..._Tax_Title.pdf

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi...f_Sale_ODS.pdf

    then some cash to pay the fees and taxes .

    You will walk out with hard plates and a copy of the VT-119 form stamped valid with the costs paid .

    In a week or so a permanent registration card with the sticker for the plate will be mailed out to you .

    Now your ready for Mass RMV.
    Only thing I’ll add, is you’ll need a vin verification and form because he’s out of state. When I registered my R1, the vin verification was waived because of Covid.

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  22. #22
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Can confirm what TimmyDuck said, anytime I've gone to the DMV in Vermont I've walked out with metal plates and my temp registration. My official registration came in the mail a few weeks later. You don't need insurance to register, but you need insurance to inspect.

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  23. #23
    Lifer
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMMYDUCK View Post
    Okay let’s stop mixing apples and oranges here .

    What Boosten is doing with the imports is a whole different scenario .

    For you TLS you are simply going to get it registered then transfer said registration to Mass .

    No insurance will be needed nor an inspection to get this accomplished.

    The bike however will not be legal to ride around till the registration is transfered back to Mass because it won’t have insurance on it .

    To be successful you will need to make an in- person appointment.

    I recommend the Springfield, VT DMV at exit 7 of interstate 91.

    You’ll simply need these two form filled out properly :

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi..._Tax_Title.pdf

    https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fi...f_Sale_ODS.pdf

    then some cash to pay the fees and taxes .

    You will walk out with hard plates and a copy of the VT-119 form stamped valid with the costs paid .

    In a week or so a permanent registration card with the sticker for the plate will be mailed out to you .

    Now your ready for Mass RMV.
    My importing aspect of it doesn't make much difference. I also do it with us stuff as well.
    I can promise you that they will not send you a real registration a few weeks after the temp one. They will require you to get it inspected. That is why you have a temp one. If he buys said vehicle from VT then they MAY issue him a real reg without the inspection but a vehicle unknown to VT will need an inspection.
    Vin verification is a recent covid change. I had one require it and two that did not recently.
    Mass will not accept the temp registration either. This may be a luck thing but I've tried enough times to not even bother now.

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  24. #24
    Lifer TIMMYDUCK's Avatar
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    Quote Originally Posted by R7 View Post
    Only thing I’ll add, is you’ll need a vin verification.
    You are absolutely correct , they can ask for a VIN verification at anytime .

    Although I just registered a bike two weeks ago from out of state with no title, just Bill of Sale and they aren’t requiring VIN verifications still .

    If TLS is worried about that , he can load the bike and bring it with him to his registration appointment and the DMV agent will go out and do it on the spot .

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  25. #25
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    Re: VT Registration Question - For Those Of You That Have Used It

    There's a legitimate way to register an untitled vehicle in MA, but there's so much bureaucracy and red tape that I've always gone with a VT reg:

    https://www.mass.gov/info-details/ti...nded-vehicles-

    https://zipbonds.com/types-of-surety...massachusetts/

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    Last edited by PurplePackage; 01-31-23 at 03:08 PM.

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