Whats the best way to make changes in MA Bike Laws?

[Loun]

Some of you may have seen my rant on facebook but I wanted to pose the question here in hopes to maybe do something to follow through on my annoyance.

I saw the CanAM Spyder commercial where they make a huge emphasis in the commercial about being able to get a motorcycle license using the Spydah. Their website also prominently displays that "Getting your operators license is easy" on the main page of their site (http://en-US.spyder.brp.com/Home.aspx)

Let me start off by saying I have no problem with people that choose to ride 3 wheeled vehicles, I just wouldnt classify them as motorcycles when it comes to State license endorsements. I dont think there is really anything about a Spyder ride wise that would qualify a Spyder pilot to operate a 2 wheeled motorcycle. There is no front brake, you dont lean to make it turn, you dont balance it as a bike. Lets talk MA riders education test, I remember having to do figure 8s in a box, having to do a pretty tight slalom, having to run through a corner and accelerating through it for stability. The hardest part of any of these tests and what they are checking for is your ability to maintain balance and steady control of the bike while doing it. How are those skills assessed on 3 wheels? How does a Spyder give someone the skills to safely operate a motorcycle.

Here are the potential problems I see:
- People borrowing the Spider to get their M license and then thinking they are good to go to ride.
- Spyder drivers thinking they can go hop on someones motorcycle and take it for a spin without having the necessary skills to do so.
- Spyder riders going to bike shops and test driving things without skills to do so.
- Potentially more idiots on the roads with no proven or tested skills, riding over their heads.
- Leads to more accidents.
- Leads to more pissed off cagers.
- Leads to more accidents.
- Leads to more people getting hurt.
- Leads to higher insurance premiums.

Resolution:
Im open to ideas here but Im thinking some sort of M-3 endorsement giving those people that chose to take the test on a 3 wheeled vehicle the ability to drive only 3 wheeled vehicles. If someone takes the test on a 2 wheeled vehicle they are able to ride anything with 2 wheels or more.


So the question I have is 2 fold... am I the only one pissed off at that this marketing and what I consider a loophole in the law? What is the best way to go about trying to make a law change on this?


Thanks in advance for at least hearing me out

-Lou

[obsolete]

The only problem is that you've made the assumption that people that have acquired their endorsement in the "regular" way know how to ride.

[Loun]

Thats where you are wrong. There is no assumption, I am saying that those who have gotten their M endorsement have demonstrated to either a MA safety instructor or a MA state police officer they they have the necessary skills to pass the MA M license test on a motorcycle (2 wheels). Brain capacity and real world skill are not part of the test as is. Couple that with no demonstrated skill to balance a bike and thats what im trying to avoid.

[OreoGaborio]

Interestingly enough, I had an MSF BRC student last year who had a Spyder.... he rode it to class, showed it off, it was pretty cool.

He was heart broken (so was I) when I had to tell him he didn't pass the riding evaluation.

[Loun]

They are cool and server a purpose in the marketplace, I get that. I have no problem with it. I just think it falls into a category that no one knows what to do with and is going to result in something dangerous for a lot of people. If all you want to ride is a Spyder, more power to you but have a M-3 or a T endorsement or a M - Restricted.

Theres a reason why you cant get a license to drive a city bus by taking a test with a small cargo van. It requires different skills to drive...

[butcher bergs]

What about the 50cc-and-under scooters buzzing around out there that require nothing more than a driver's license?

Same issue, opposite end of the spectrum.

[Loun]

I believe in MA they are pushing or have pushed to require that they be registered for street use. If they dont require a M endorsement for that at that point then yes I agree they should have to. But again how would one go about getting this out there to be changed?

Ps.. yes i never sleep.

[oVTo]

The skill set problem goes both ways, too. 3-wheelers steer so differently than bikes that someone licensed for a bike should not be qualified for a 3-wheeler either. Just watch a sidecar course someday, and you're likely to see some experienced motorcyclists struggling with that extra wheel for a while. The M3 endorsement is a decent idea, but I wouldn't agree that an M endorsement should be for 2 or more wheels.

Borrowing a Spyder for a license test would only by possible with the RMV test. They're not allowed in MSF courses. But if you change the licensing rules, the RMV would have to develop a separate licensing test, and that would be very expensive.

[OreoGaborio]

Just saw the CanAm commercial on tv..... yeah, using the M endorsement angle. Hopefully their customers understand how different they are compared to a motorcycle.

[breakdirt916]

1.) provide rationale

2.) get stats

3.) extrapolate risks for mortality

4.) compare risks to current mortality rates

5.) evaluate the economic burden for each endpoint, correcting for confounding factors

6.) be rich!

[KingCast 650R]

What about the 50cc-and-under scooters buzzing around out there that require nothing more than a driver's license?

Same issue, opposite end of the spectrum.

I don't so much have a problem with that and the 2-4 hp engines most of them have.

I do have a problem with someone unqualified to sport something with horsepower in the range of my 955i.

[KingCast 650R]

The skill set problem goes both ways, too. 3-wheelers steer so differently than bikes that someone licensed for a bike should not be qualified for a 3-wheeler either. But if you change the licensing rules, the RMV would have to develop a separate licensing test, and that would be very expensive.

1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
But what to do?

[Falko]

Is this whole scenario really going to be a problem? How many Can-ams are out there and how many of those riders are going to get someone to let them borrow their bikes? The only canam riders I've talked to (and it has only been like 2 because I've only seen like three of the things) had or have 2-wheelers as well.
If can am uses the easy to get endorsement marketing, so be it. It increases the ranks of motorcycle owners which only helps keep stupid regulations from getting passed, and problems created by it will be outweighed by that alone. My opinions only.

[RandyO]

I don't see the problem, young squids aren't going to buy a CanAm just to make it easier to get a bike endorsement then buy a gixxer

people that they are marketing to are generaly middle aged/mid life crisis that have always been too afraid of 2 wheels that can "tip over" but otherwise want to enjoy the open freedom of motorcycle touring

[Awesome]

TTS.

How about, you worry about yourself, and let the rest of the world worry about themselves.

[kb1]

At the 13-16k price tag for one of them, I don't think a lot of people are going to go buy one just to pass a test...just my thought.

[NobodySpecific]

TTS.

How about, you worry about yourself, and let the rest of the world worry about themselves.

I'm pretty sure that dangerous drivers and riders affect all of us

[sdog30]

At the 13-16k price tag for one of them, I don't think a lot of people are going to go buy one just to pass a test...just my thought.

They aren't cheap.

You could join the AMA and support local initiatives? If they become an issue, the state will step in. They don't like loop holes. Used to not need a license to ride a 50cc, but then too many people who loss their license to operate were riding scooters around.

Those gay-ass, annoying pit bikes that you saw grown men ride around like they were on real bikes in any local hood you went through didn't last long without regulation.

[Awesome]

I'm pretty sure that dangerous drivers and riders affect all of us

The people I've riden with on this site are more dangerous than the majority of drivers on the road. I'm going to lobby that all cars and bikes in Ma and NH be governed at 65 mph, that will be safer, and there is no legal place to drive over 65.

[Rossco]

The people I've riden with on this site are more dangerous than the majority of drivers on the road. I'm going to lobby that all cars and bikes in Ma and NH be governed at 65 mph, that will be safer, and there is no legal place to drive over 65.

[j4eric]

I think the skill set for 2 and 3 wheeled vehicles are the same.....so there is a shorter learning curve for us motorcyclists...should go vice versa.

[Loun]

"How about, you worry about yourself, and let the rest of the world worry about themselves."

As someone said it effects us all not only safety wise but also $ wise with insurance.


Eric, 2 wheel to three wheel riding, you take balance out of the equation, braking is completely different both distance and how you do it during a panic stop, you take leaning and lean angles out of the equation, but yea other than those and any other HUGE differences I forgot to mention you are right they require the same skill sets. Its so different that its not helping someone get ready to ride a 2 wheeled bike it is potentially teaching them bad habits that will get them killed on 2 wheels.


We can argue that there are other problems in the world but you have to start someplace and its not about the cost of these things, im not saying someone will go and buy one just to take a license test but I bet there will be places renting them for this purpose, I bet people will be trying to borrow them to take their test. Its a bad idea and the fact that its their current primary marketing pitch is bad for everyone.

[Kurlon]

The problem you will have is at the FED level, the Spyder is classed as a motorcycle. To have it treated differently you'll have to make a Fed level change to the rules.