what state has the worst motorcycle riders in it?? not MA, or all new england...

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Originally Posted by Garandman

If you believe the MSF BRC is the be-all and end-all of motorcycle training, it's my turn to have my mind blown. Fair enough?

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Yes, that's exactly what I think... Took the words right out of my mouth. :poke:


You said "the MSF doesn't have the nuts to say "Wear a light colored helmet, hi-viz clothing, and practice the 'Anti-SMIDSY Manuever*"'

That's great... except most of the stuff you don't think they have the nuts to talk about makes up about HALF of the current BRC cirriculum. A considerable amount of time is spent talking about all the different types of gear (including color choice), ways to be visible to others (by adjusting lane position, using your lights, wearing light colored clothing, etc), risk management strategies (like "Search, Evaluate, Execute", "Rider Radar", Margin of Safety, proper following distances, etc) and emergency maneuvers such as emergency stopping, emergencty stopping in a curve, swerving, etc.

To say that the MSF doesn't have the nuts to talk about that stuff is absolutely laughable.


Do I think it's the be-all and end-all of motorcycle training? FUCK NO! Room for improvement? Of course! But considering the fact that this course is designed to teach these very same people how to ride motorcycles FROM SCRATCH and give them some basic tools for survival in just 16 short hours, I think it does a pretty damn good job.

Glad to hear, this was not the case when I took it, but then again, you were 5 at the time.

If they the concept of looming and teach the anti-SMIDSY weave, they certainly have come a long way.

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Originally Posted by Garandman

Glad to hear, this was not the case when I took it, but then again, you were 5 at the time.

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Maybe we shouldn't speak condescendingly about that which we haven't experienced in 27 years.

The only thing that never changes is that nothing stays the same.



BTW, I like how you put that... "you were 5 at the time"... it didn't come off like you were talking down at me at all.

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Maybe we shouldn't speak condescendingly about that which we haven't experienced in 27 years.

The only thing that never changes is that nothing stays the same.

BTW, I like how you put that... "you were 5 at the time"... it didn't come off like you were talking down at me at all.

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Dude, as a kid our family doctor put stitches in my chin while smoking a cigarette. People took LSD for fun. Our first several family cars had no seat belts. The number of other riders I knew who owned a full-face helmet was one.

I made note of how long ago it was to indicate that it was indeed long ago and the world has changed. I also looked at the curriculum and it is greatly expended from that time, which is undoubtedly a good thing. I think everyone should take a couple of them at least.

Let me know the times and locations you are teaching the course and I'll send a new rider to it.

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

How bout you sit through the BRC again before making assumptions...

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I want to go on record as changing my attitude towards current MSF offerings. When Pete challenged me, I went back and looked at the current course offerings, and they are a lot different than what was available when I started riding, with more course options and a far more comprehensive curriculum.

As mentioned I to take at least one motorcycle training course every year. Hope no one will construe anything I said as a reason not to take a course, since a course taken years ago likely does not apply to what is currently available.

I love a happy ending.

BTW I looked at the Basic RiderCourse online handbook.

The only reference to High Visibility is under Rain Suits. They make no recommendation for high visibility riding gear under the "Jackets, Pants, Riding Gear" section prior. The Rain Suits section says "High visibility orange or yellow colors are good choices."

The Hurt Report [1981] stated "Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets." Several other studies have confirmed this, although there are several studies in which rider clothing color influence on accident involvement is inconclusive.

How about the video clip for staying visible that's shown in the classroom? Did you download and watch that, too?
Did you see the part where they had two riders riding side by side, one in black gear and one in white with reflective piping?

No? Yeah, that's because you can only watch it if you actually take the course.



Do you not anything better to do with your time than to quote a 31 year old study and point out holes in a BEGINNER course that's designed to simply give brand new riders the basic skills and enough knowledge to make their own educated decisions & hopefully keep them alive, and ENCOURAGES them to seek out further knowledge and training?

Pete is a rockstar...

Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Do you not anything better to do with your time than to quote a 31 year old study and point out holes in a course that's designed to give brand new riders the basic skills to ride and enough knowledge to make their own educated decisions, including whether or not to seek further knowledge and training?

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Sounds more palatable if you hear it in a Daffy Duck voice.

Made more sense 30 seconds before you edited your post to remove the word "insufferable"...

Pete already nailed it, but....high vis and wearing bright clothing is mentioned multiple times in the text. And reference is made to it in the videos as well. They also mention proper lane positioning to be more visible, proper headlight usage, and have interactive scenarios to help students gain experience with watching and interpreting traffic (otherwise known as Search Evaluate, and Execute). SEE.

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Originally Posted by Father Ribs

Sounds more palatable if you hear it in a Daffy Duck voice.

Made more sense 30 seconds before you edited your post to remove the word "insufferable"...

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Haha, sufferin succotash.

Crap, that's Sylvester the Cat.

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Haha, sufferin succotash.

Crap, that's Sylvester the Cat.

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I thought you were that slow lion?