Some (very quick) advice on Fiberglass (like, before this resin hardens quick)

[Ductard]

In the process of using a friend's custom belly pan to mold my own.

Wrapped his in saran wrap, mixed up the resin per the instructions, brushed it on the saran wrap, laid the mat down, and brushed more on top.

Where I'm stuck is that I can't get the mat to "stick to" a couple of concave parts.

After brushing everything patiently, and playing around with it for like half an hour, I realized it wasn't hardening as fast as I expected it to, so I mixed up a little more resin hotter this time (3x the "normal" amount of hardener - i.e. 30 drops for about an ounce of resin) and figured that would start hardening fast enough for me to start forming the concave parts while it hardened.

That still didn't harden "real time" like I thought it would, so I set it aside for about 20 minutes and went back to it. It was starting to get hard (that's what she said) but now it's sticky and hard to press into the concave parts without it just pulling back out - using the brush vs. a gloved hand helped, but still not going as well as I thought.

There's got to be a better way. I figure I've got very little time before the stuff sets for good. Anything I can do to salvage this? Or am I going to just have to start over tomorrow? If so, what do I do different.

[myzx6]

Better way to do it is to make a mold by covering ur buddies part in a self setting clay, then when that drys u want to add your resin and mat inside of it, make sure to do more layers of mat then you think you will need and make sure to get all the air out between layers

[Petorius]

Definitely use a brush, and "poke" the resin into the mat with the tip of the brush. Use a medium sized chip brush. The poking helps to "wet out" the mat, and also pushes out air bubbles.

Also, temperature matters for this stuff. If you were doing this outside yesterday, that is probably why it was taking so long to harden. (It was in the 40s when I left work yesterday).

[Paul_E_D]

Be sure to post pics of your results!

[Falko]

Most outer layers on complex parts are thin weave so it lays in. But even in tight areas you have to cut the mat to get it to lay in. Then you back it with more layers, preferably heavier mat strips.

[xxaarraa]

I am impressed by you guys. Actually making your own fiberglass? That's intense.

[Ductard]

I am impressed by you guys. Actually making your own fiberglass? That's intense.

It's this or a $1,500 set of Termignoni slip-ons. Nobody makes a belly pan that works with the stock 1199 exhaust.

Brett Baker made one by using the front of an Armour Body belly pan and molding the back directly to his oil pan. That's what I'm molding mine from.

Fiberglass isn't that tough - just mix two liquids then voilà- grownup paper mâché.

The hard / time consuming part is usually sanding the stuff, which I don't really have to do here b/c the pan will be buried under exhaust and side fairings.

[Imbeek]

+1 on do it on a warmer day

Make sure to wear a HIGH quality mask...for mixing and applying, and for sanding it later

[nhbubba]

Yeah, but nobody's going to buy his stuff because he does shoddy work with the wrong tools.

[xxaarraa]

Yeah, but nobody's going to buy his stuff because he does shoddy work with the wrong tools.

I like it when my baseless allegations gain traction and turn into legitimate rumors.

[Ductard]

Ok, so here's what I've got (white/black is original, unpainted is the newly molded piece):




So last night I had the idea of putting the belly pan on top of the exhaust, like it will sit when it's on the bike. That held the indented parts in place.

Now, some of that is sort of rippley (third picture). I'm sort of torn on whether to cut those pieces out and re-form it with smaller pieces or whether I should just scuff it with 80 grit and put a second layer on as is (using smaller pieces that way too, but just not cutting anything away).

You guys talked about getting all the air bubbles out when putting on another layer, but obviously if I fiberglass over the ripples there will be some air spaces. I know I'll sacrifice some strength, but I think it's *almost* strong enough with a single layer to do what it has to do. Just worried it might buckle under a full load of oil if it is ever needed. So the point being, I don't think structurally it will be bad if there are air spaces that I can't get out.

Thoughts?

[Ductard]

PS - I think only the front lip (that hooks under the bottom of the radiator) will be visible when the bike is back together, so I'm really not worried about looks here. I'll probably paint it black so it's not noticeable but that's about it.

xxaarraa has already warned me that I will lower the resale value of my bike by $0.00001 if I don't get this right, but I'm ok with that.....

[number9]

Watch these: https://www.youtube.com/user/easycompositestv

Yeah, he's a Pommy cunt, but he knows what he's doing.

[JettaJayGLS]

I think that looks pretty good!

1-Add a few more layers, especially on the thinner parts.
2-Trim it up nice and clean with a dremel.
3-Mock it up on the bike and pray it fits nicely...or that there is a enough flex to coax it into attaching.
4-Toss some paint on it, and be done.

Its the lower fairing on a race bike, I don't think you need super duper strength. I doubt a couple air bubbles is gonna kill ya. But considering this is an 1199 expect huge amounts of ridicule since you decided to make something to go racing instead of spending ridiculous amounts of money.

[nhbubba]

I would not sweat having air "bubbles". I would avoid having air pockets. But small bubbles aren't that much of a problem in my opinion.
If you are that concerned about applying another layer and getting it to bond, I wonder if you could skim the part with filler to smooth it out and avoid having cavities between the layers. Would the resin bond to the filler? I bet it would.

[Garandman]

Got CAD skills? We have a 3D printer - a large one. This was made in a few pieces but is 36" long.

[tls25rs]

Got CAD skills? We have a 3D printer - a large one. This was made in a few pieces but is 36" long.

I like the toys you have but why would you 3D print a motorcycle frame? Fun?

[Petorius]

Better way to do it is to make a mold by covering ur buddies part in a self setting clay

What kind of clay is good (cheap) for this? Link?

[Garandman]

I like the toys you have but why would you 3D print a motorcycle frame? Fun?

For us - trade show demonstration.

For the manufacturers, they mock up the engine envelope and frames so they can do things like harness layout, plan assembly tools and fixtures, etc. Somewhere there's an entire Ducati engine.

Most higher-end CAD tools have a "Shrink wrap" feature where you can take the outer boundaries of the assembly and build it as one lump.

These are being used increasingly to replace one-off carbon fiber layups, or to make the tooling for them. They can also be used to make thermoform molds.

[Ductard]

What kind of clay is good (cheap) for this? Link?

Yeah, stuff like this is what I've found. At ~$30 for 4.5lbs, it's not super pricey, but I'd imagine it would take a lot of the stuff to mold a part this big. I figure it's got to be fairly thick all the way around to keep from breaking. Am I wrong?

That's why I made my pan directly from the part, although I wouldn't mind having a mold of the piece.

[nhbubba]

Cut styrofoam?

[Petorius]

Cut styrofoam?

I am imagining making an EPIC mess with a dremel.

[nhbubba]

Bread knife. Cleanup with a shop vac.

Works for me anyway.

[Ductard]

Cut styrofoam?

If I'm imagining how that would work right I don't think it would be great for this application.

The idea is to mold off of a pan that already fits because its a very tight fit in there. The guy that originally made this pan molded it directly off of his oil pan.

The styro method sounds like a good way to prototype a custom part that doesn't exist yet. But it sounds like a "shave a little bit, place old pan inside and check fitment, shave a little bit more, hope to not shave too much" operation.

[loudbeard]

I think the first problem you'll encounter is your part may be too small or large, depending on if you molded the inside or outside of the part. As Jay mentioned, if its flexible enough, you can probably bend it into place, but that will distort other areas.

The do it right approach is to use modeling clay on the inside of the part you want to replicate, then glass over your model. I'd also recommend using wax paper rather than a plastic wrap between the model and new part.