SURVEY!!!! READ ME!!!

[Baggey22]

Okay folks, bare with me on this. . . it's for school.

If there was a motorcycle shop in Essex, or Willison, or Burlington, (somewhere around that area) where instead of bringing your bike and having a sketchy mechanic take FOREVER to fix it you fixed it yourself. Would you do it?
For a class I have to write up a business plan, and I have an idea for a motorcycle shop where you come in and fix your own motorcycle.
Basically this is how it works. For a rate of around $20.00 PER HOUR you would get a 10ftx10ft (maybe a little bigger, haven't decided yet) space STOCKED with basic mechanic's hand tools (and some specialty tools behind the front desk) to do whatever work you needed to do to your bike.
You'd come in, rent the space, fix your bike, pay when you're done, and go home with a fixed bike.

The question is, IF this business was REAL, WOULD YOU USE IT??? I know there are a lot of you that have knowledge about working on motorcycles BUT have no place to do it OR the tools to do it. This would be that space and have tools.
I NEED to know your feedback.

Ask any questions you might have, and provide honest feedback.

[AHAMAYs2]

Could the space be rented out by individuals to tech classes to others? Would each space include a motocycle lift? Would it be a giant garage set-up or moe of a storage unit set up?

And yes, i do believe i would rent a space if the guys helped me work on my bike

[Baggey22]

The thought is like cubicle style work spaces. So three wall "enclosures" with tools. I was thinking motorcycle jacks instead of lifts AT FIRST. This is a business plan, so big expensive things like lifts would come after some time if the business was successful.
Also, winter storage would be a possibility at this business as well.

Once a space has been rented, you can do as you like with it. You're paying for it.

[MotoFreak]

There is a place like this in Essex, but its Vintage Brit Bikes exclusively. However, if your business plan included a tire changing area/machine, I would def. be in for it. Good idea. Remember though, liability ins. and all that adds up. Good luck.

[Doc]

Okay folks, bare with me on this. . . it's for school.

If there was a motorcycle shop in Essex, or Willison, or Burlington, (somewhere around that area) where instead of bringing your bike and having a sketchy mechanic take FOREVER to fix it you fixed it yourself. Would you do it?
For a class I have to write up a business plan, and I have an idea for a motorcycle shop where you come in and fix your own motorcycle.
Basically this is how it works. For a rate of around $20.00 PER HOUR you would get a 10ftx10ft (maybe a little bigger, haven't decided yet) space STOCKED with basic mechanic's hand tools (and some specialty tools behind the front desk) to do whatever work you needed to do to your bike.
You'd come in, rent the space, fix your bike, pay when you're done, and go home with a fixed bike.

The question is, IF this business was REAL, WOULD YOU USE IT??? I know there are a lot of you that have knowledge about working on motorcycles BUT have no place to do it OR the tools to do it. This would be that space and have tools.
I NEED to know your feedback.

Ask any questions you might have, and provide honest feedback.

Your idea? Sounds alot like the idea I have.

[Baggey22]

There is a place like this in Essex, but its Vintage Brit Bikes exclusively. However, if your business plan included a tire changing area/machine, I would def. be in for it. Good idea. Remember though, liability ins. and all that adds up. Good luck.

Where in Essex? I'd like to see this place.

Your idea? Sounds alot like the idea I have.

Maybe it is? I thought your place was more about storage than anything.

[Manny]

I got news for both of you. Its neither of your ideas!

[naked-daytrader]

It's a retarded idea and you'd be out of business within the year...

If someone were mechanically inclined enough to work on their own motorcycle, and especially one needing special tools, one would think they would also have those necessary tools. Why would someone with enough knowledge of bikes not have the tools? For the folks that don't have tools (ones which you would provide); why in the hell would they pay $20 an hour if they don't know what the hell they were doing? What are they going to do? Ride their motorcycle into one of your rented bays and stare at it? Other than changing oil, brake fluid or a tire, there's not a whole hell of a lot a normal moto rider could do without being proficient at working on a bike, engine , gearbox, valves, belts or whatever?

[TIMMYDUCK]

No.

[FirstLightning]

Check this out.... http://privateersgarage.com/

There are several of these type operations out there is that seem to get by. Not sure if they are 'successful' let alone making a killing at it.

If I did not have my own space to work on the bike I would consider it. The main seeling point would be the space to work. I imagine most folks interested would have the mechanical knowlege to use the tools and therefore the tools to do the basic maintenance. Lacking a work area, the access to tools would be appealing... who want would haul their tool chest over on the back of the bike.

Something to consider...
Competent mechanics that provide advice to the users.
Specialty tools the average shadetree mechanic might not have.

I would think it would be more successful if targeted at an urban market.

[brendanp]

LOL Mark! You dont spare no punches! What would be cool is if there was a smart mechanic on site that could guide you on doing things that you needed to learn.

[ranette]

Being totally inept mechanically I wouldn't be able to use it, but that's not important.

Though on the surface it sounds like a good idea, I think you really have to take into account what a small niche you are marketing to. First take the fact that even if the greater Burlington area is the most populous in the state there are relatively few people here. Second, motorcycling in Vermont is very seasonal, even the traditional bike shops up here have another product line-snowmobiles-to get them through the winter. Third, and I believe most importantly, motorcycles themselves are a very niche item and you are further narrowing your target market to only those who do their own wrenching. Of course you'll find plenty of folks on this board who think it's a great idea and I'm pretty certain you'd find a group who think the shop is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you're a god for opening it. However are there enough of those guys out there to sustain a business? I'd say probably not. Certainly the idea of an area for people to work on their own bikes may be a good one, but in my opinion, it could be viable only as part of a larger motorcycle based retail/service business.

[Baggey22]

Again, this is a school project.

Originally I was thinking the target market would be towards college students and those that live in apartments. I personally am both a college student and live in an apartment. I've changed my oil once in the driveway and once in a garage. Both times it was obnoxious to do. The driveway I was SO afraid of spilling a little oil onto the ground the job took two or three times longer than it should have, and the second time it was such a pain in the ass trying to BORROW a garage to change it I got it done two or three weeks after I wanted to do it.
Also I know how it is not having a garage and wanting to do something on the bike and having it RAIN every free day that I have and not being able to do the work.
I have the mechanical know how to do things like oil changes, coolant changes, brake pads, brake lines, battery changes, air filter cleaning/changing, spark plugs, carburetor balancing, etc. . . I also have all the tools necessary to do these things.

I do agree that VT may not be the place for this type of business.

What about opening this up to any type of motorized vehicle? Cars, trucks, SUVs, motorcycles, ATV, snowmobiles.
The only downside to that is having lifts for the cars, all you'd really be able to do is things with jacks, jack stands and/or ramps.

[Pestilence]

I'd go to a friends house, bum his tools, beer and time before I paid to use a space.

Might work for others but I do my own work and look at each 'repair' as a way to buy more tools.

[highsider]

It's a retarded idea and you'd be out of business within the year...

If someone were mechanically inclined enough to work on their own motorcycle, and especially one needing special tools, one would think they would also have those necessary tools. Why would someone with enough knowledge of bikes not have the tools? For the folks that don't have tools (ones which you would provide); why in the hell would they pay $20 an hour if they don't know what the hell they were doing? What are they going to do? Ride their motorcycle into one of your rented bays and stare at it? Other than changing oil, brake fluid or a tire, there's not a whole hell of a lot a normal moto rider could do without being proficient at working on a bike, engine , gearbox, valves, belts or whatever?

If someone has the desire and know-how to work on their own bike, they will just do it at home.

[markbvt]

Sorry Adam, but I've got to agree with everyone else.

A business like this might make sense in a big city. I think it's actually been done in LA, and maybe NYC. In Burlington it wouldn't work because the population's not big enough to make it worthwhile.

I don't have a garage either, so I just do all my maintenance work in my driveway or back yard. Even valve checks. I also have nearly all the tools I need -- and if I end up needing one I don't have, I either buy it or borrow it. A garage would be nice, but it's not necessary for basic maintenance.

Where a garage would be much more useful is for long-term projects, but no one's going to pay $20/hour for it. People might buy a membership for $50-100/month that allows them to store the project there and come work on it whenever they want, but that's getting into a whole lot more space/services than you've planned for. And truthfully, most garageless people around here would either just rent some shop space or talk a friend into letting them use some of their garage/shop space. It's very hard to make a business case for this unless you've got a very large population to draw upon.

The place in Essex, by the way, is Classic Bike Experience, and they make most of their money off parts sales and service/restorations of classic Britbikes. But they do allow people to rent shop space/time and even make themselves available to help you if you get stuck. But again, this isn't the main focus of their business.

show me a survey for school asking why the members from VT post all thier threads in the Bike Night sub-forum

Because we all actually know each other from Bike Night.

--mark

[Stoneman]

People that work on their own bikes already have the resources needed. People that don't work on their own bikes can't, don't or won't for many reasons. Seems like a silly idea to me...

So I guess in answer to your actual question: No, I wouldn't use it. It sounds rather absurd to me, this mock business plan. But if it's just a project for your business or marketing class, run with it. But like someone pointed out, work a tire changing station into your plan too...

[RandyO]

fwiw, there was a similar type business on Williston Road in South Burlington many years ago (early 1970's) called the "Autofix" it was fairly successful originally, then the original owner retired

the base hourly rate included a bay and use of hand tools, one jack and jackstands that you had to sign out of the tool crib

air tools and other specialty tools were available for an extra hourly fee

there was a tire changer that was operated by a shop employee

oil, common filters, spark plugs and other commonly needed itemds were available onsite

in the winter time when people couldn't work in their yards, the place was packed

I could see a place like this working, butr not on motorcycles alone, and I think a $20/hr fee is a bit high

you need to have a well written release of liability

[Baggey22]

show me a survey for school asking why the members from VT post all thier threads in the Bike Night sub-forum

It was in the VT sub forum because, as Mark said, I know a lot of the members on here from Bike Nights.
Also I'm trying to reach the actual target market. For this project the more REAL numbers and statistics I get the more points I get.

[Trouble]

Living 20-30 minutes from Burlington I'd have a hard time taking advantage of something like this. Most any project I did on my bike would involve me loading it and my tools into a trailer and bringing it into the shop. At that point I'd rather just do it in the trailer in the driveway. Tire changing would be a plus but still I'd pretty much have to drive in or deal with strapping the tire onto a backpack and riding in. If it was to cost me $20 to rent the shop I'd just as soon take it somewhere that will cost me $15 more and be confident they have the skills to do it without munging up the new tire or scratching my rim.

I think (as others have mentioned above) your best bet would be to include storage as part of the business - the people that you are trying to cater to don't have a place to put their bike as it is. Read through the thread Doc had going to see how he was going to structure his business. If what you are talking about is just a school project I bet you could get all kinds of good feedback and ideas from him as to where he was headed.

[markbvt]

Regarding tire changing -- even that is easy to do at home without any resources besides a few tools. I do all my tire changes in the yard outside my apartment door with three tire irons, a C-clamp, a bead popper, a rubber mallet, and a valve core removal tool. Last weekend when I put the studded tires on the Honda, I took the wheels inside and did the actual tire changes on my kitchen floor (because it was fucking cold out).

I've also rebuilt forks in the yard. And installed accessory electrical outlets and heated grips in my driveway. And rejetted the carbs on the Triumph, the Honda, and my dad's Kawi. And hacked my Triumph's airbox and installed pod filters. And swapped out handlebars. Not to mention the usual basic maintenance stuff like oil changes, chain replacement, brake pad replacement, etc.

None of this stuff is complicated enough to require a garage.

Now, a frame-off restoration, or a major engine rebuild -- THAT's what you need a garage for. Again, these are longer-term projects where the bike will need to sit in a disassembled state for some period of time.

--mark

[KillBill]

It's a retarded idea and you'd be out of business within the year...

If someone were mechanically inclined enough to work on their own motorcycle, and especially one needing special tools, one would think they would also have those necessary tools. Why would someone with enough knowledge of bikes not have the tools? For the folks that don't have tools (ones which you would provide); why in the hell would they pay $20 an hour if they don't know what the hell they were doing? What are they going to do? Ride their motorcycle into one of your rented bays and stare at it? Other than changing oil, brake fluid or a tire, there's not a whole hell of a lot a normal moto rider could do without being proficient at working on a bike, engine , gearbox, valves, belts or whatever?

Not to mention the insurance costs would be astronomical.

[yesterdayze]

I'm afraid I have to agree with the majority opinion here. Most people that know what they are doing enough to do their own thing know because they do their own thing. Because of this they usually have their own resources to do so. Personally, as you know, I have all of my own resources, so I wouldn't do that. To be honest, if I didn't have my own resources I think I would find the money better spent obtaining those resources.

Now, as mentioned, if you billed it more as a class where you bring your own stuff and get taught by a professional teacher while you work on it you might be able to pull it off. Get an accredited teacher, several accreditations that you can work towards by logging X hours, then set specific times that you are open and let people come, take a short class then do 'lab' the rest of the time on their own stuff. On top of this offer 'open work days'. No credit for those days/hours, but open to work. No weekly requirement, just a minimum time required to get accreditation. Maybe work with local colleges so it is recognized as a class and worth credits. Maybe even a small college would be willing to wrap it into tuition and pay the shop for the students who choose to do it there, those who aren't students pay out of pocket. Either way at the end you get a nice spiffy certificate and, if you are a student, class credits.

Adding storage would as pointed out be a huge bonus. Provide it for bikes and a secure place for tools, then, while you could provide base tools, you can also encourage them to build up their own set of tools.

In short, target college students and the like. Bill it as a class; give an accreditation for hours/classes accumulated. Throw in some tests (written and lab style) so they feel like they are doing something. People are more inclined to pay for something they can do on their own if you convince them that they can't. Hence the class. The second benefit to targeting students is the part everyone has mentioned about those who can do this own their own tools; while true most of the time, college students living in frat houses and dorms often have no place to store these tools or work and may just be starting out on their tool collection. Even colleges with garages and such may have too many restrictions, or they may be in an unrelated field and wish to do this as an elective. Having multiple accreditations as different classes will allow them to do it multiple years in a row while they or their parents flip the bill while smiling cause they are getting business skills.

[ultraTwist]

No I wouldn't. I've seen this done before a long time ago for cars. I don't think you can make enought money doing it.

Now the iPod, that's a business plan. Have your own media, your own store, your own player, do the whole thing over the web with no need for employees or stores.

[yesterdayze]

Now the iPod, that's a business plan. Have your own media, your own store, your own player, do the whole thing over the web with no need for employees or stores.

Awesome idea!!! Hey, how about installing toilets...wait for it.... in a house!!! That way you don't have to walk through the snow to get to the bathroom in the middle of winter. We could make a little closet to put it in!!!!

I bet between us we could come up with lots of great ideas. Operating systems with visual interfaces. Even require 'upgrades' to keep doing things so we can keep making money. We wouldn't even have to make it reliable as long as there is something new coming out all the time!

Hey, I know a real money maker... we could provide 'health insurance'..... oh wait... sorry... scratch that idea... (Just kidding, don't get rat holed, just messing.... I couldn't resist the temptation to 'misunderstand' the IPod comment and have a little fun)