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Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

  1. #1
    Lifer catamount's Avatar
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    Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    This is a crazy story. My co-worker was riding his dual sport in Craftsbury when the group encountered a gate blocking a class 4 road.

    They went past (public road) and were surrounded and threatened by members of a survivalist "church".

    WCAX did a story on it that aired on Friday...

    Video: http://www.wcax.com/global/video.asp...autoStart=true

    Survivalists, Town Clash Over Craftsbury Road

    Craftsbury, Vermont - August 21, 2009


    Several people-- including a public official-- claim they have been threatened and intimidated by a heavily-armed religious survivalist group that resides in the town of Craftsbury. The controversy is the latest chapter in an escalating dispute over a 150-year-old road the town says is public-- but the church says is theirs.

    Jeff D'Amico showed us how he and five friends on a trail bike excursion six weeks ago went around a gate so they could ride the last few miles on the public trail on Coburn Hill Road in Craftsbury. He says maps indicated the trail was a public right-of-way that runs through a 276-acre compound which is home to members of a religious group called Mission New England. So he and his pals ignored the no trespassing signs and went around the locked gate-- but not for long.

    "We were surrounded by at least a dozen men who all came running out of what they had claimed to be a church," D'Amico said. "And they said there is no road so go back that way."

    D'Amico says the men refused to move so he and his friends had to use force.

    "So I popped the clutch on my dirt bike and just rode right through 'em," D'Amico said.

    "It is a public right-of-way," Craftsbury Selectman Jim Jones said. "It is a legal trail they can hike it and bike it."

    Jones says town officials notified Mission New England that blocking access or use of the trail on the town's right-of-way is illegal. The group was ordered to remove the trespassing signs and open the gates by August 1.



    "So we sent them a letter and they come in asking us to rescind that. They've already taken the signs down and marked the trail," Jones said.

    But when we drove up the gate August 21, the trespassing signs were still in place and the gates were closed and chained but not locked. We unchained the gate and headed down the road-- but only for about 150 yards-- that's when we heard a dog coming.

    Town Lister Willy Ryan says he has been threatened and intimidated several times over the years when he has gone to the compound to assess the property values. The most ominous came this year by a man packing a gun.

    "He said well you are now on private property and I would tread lightly if I were you, because your life might be in jeopardy," Ryan said.

    Ryan says the man with the gun was John Maniatty, the reported leader of the church group. He has websites that detail how Mission New England is a born-again Christian group, explaining why its member are survivalists driven by the notion that the world is coming to an end.

    Maniatty owns a gun shop in Morrisville. On the websites he has instructional videos demonstrating how to fire high-powered firearms, including fully automatic weapons.

    We went to Maniatty's gun shop in Morrisville to get his side of the story. An employee told us Maniatty wasn't there-- but even if he was, he would have nothing to say to us.

    So far, no one has filed a criminal complaint against the group, but D'Amico tells us he is planning to.

    As for the town road issue, Mission New England has offered a land swap that would result in the disputed road being turned over to the survivalist group. It's unclear whether town officials are interested in that deal.

    Brian Joyce - WCAX News

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  2. #2
    Lifer catamount's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    This group has a website here: http://www.buildanark.net/index.php

    They have interesting articles including: Foraging: The Pignut, trapping, and "Chickens: Killing, Plucking and Eviscerating Your Chicken".


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    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    It never ceases to amaze me how stupid religious nutjobs are. You would think they'd want to avoid attracting attention to themselves, instead of threatening anyone who uses the road.

    Crazy.

    --mark

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    Lifer catamount's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Perhaps a good reason to start packing one of your large caliber hand cannons.

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  5. #5
    Littering and........
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Thats incredibly scary. Friggin' nutjobs.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Ever stop to think just how much BS in this world today revolves around religion? It's disgusting.

    I know of a gated road not far from here. My brother and a friend went out there once to go fishing in a large pond and got bitched out by the land owner. "You don't just go through a gate and drive by a house onto someones land" this idiot told them. I told my brother you should have pointed to the STREET SIGN marking said road and told the tard it was a public road and that it was illegal for him to gate it.

    Sounds like it's time to get the US Marshals and the BATFE on the scene in Craftsbury.

    Note to self: no support for this idiots gun shop.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    Note to self: no support for this idiots gun shop.
    2nd, I live near there and always thought about going in to see what he's got, not so much now.

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    Lifer obsolete's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Wow, that sounds like some good old fashioned crazy right there.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Scary that the dipshit running the show also owns a gun shop...and apparently has no clue about the laws. If he were to shoot one of the bikers or anyone on that road, he'd go to jail for a really long time.

    Wonder what he'd think if a couple hundred DS riders came through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27
    Scary that the dipshit running the show also owns a gun shop...and apparently has no clue about the laws. If he were to shoot one of the bikers or anyone on that road, he'd go to jail for a really long time.

    Wonder what he'd think if a couple hundred DS riders came through.
    If they came through packing heat

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Wow, that is nuts...seriously... I should put up a gate across my road.... lol....

    It's people like this that give normal Christians bad names lol.

    So...anyone want to organize a ride through? Come on Dano, you said it is right near you... haha

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Although this one made the news, I'd be willing to bet it's not the only place where landowners have gated a Class 4 road and thought that it was private property, not a public right-of-way. These folks may happen to be on the fringe, but I'm pretty sure there are other places in Vermont where much-closer-to-mainstream Vermonters would be willing to defend property they believed to be theirs with the threat of and application of force.

    So speaking of class IV roads, are there any canonical sources for maps, or does it require a visit to each town hall?

    Also, anyone know what happens when the feds buy land encompassing a class IV road, make it national forest, and then decide to disallow vehicular access? I'm guessing federal law trumps state law, but any other purchaser would be unable to legally block access to an ancient roadway just by virtue of buying the surrounding land.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Yeah, they had something not too long ago about some towns doing surveys and suddenly informing people that old roads went through the middle of their yards and in some cases their houses. The roads of course were long abandoned and grown over but I guess there was some consternation over the whole idea of is it now no longer their land or does it fall under the whole law that says if it has been defaulted for X time it becomes considered yours. Was kinda interesting. Obviously not a class 4 anymore, but still interesting.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by kbroderick View Post
    Although this one made the news, I'd be willing to bet it's not the only place where landowners have gated a Class 4 road and thought that it was private property, not a public right-of-way.

    I'm guessing federal law trumps state law
    I gave an example above....that gated class IV road with a street sign is in Corinth VT.

    State laws can trump feds. The fed says I can legally transport a firearm anywhere in the country, with some stipulations of course. Interstate transport law. The state of Mass says oh no you can't, at least, not without doing back flips through flaming hoops, that the fed never said I had to do.

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by kbroderick View Post
    So speaking of class IV roads, are there any canonical sources for maps, or does it require a visit to each town hall?
    http://www.aot.state.vt.us/Planning/...Town_Maps1.htm

    Also, Jason, here's a really good article about the ancient road issue. One of the things that's not pointed out in it, though, is that there's a good chance many towns will not only fail to reclaim ancient roads, but allow currently-accepted Class 4 roads to lapse.
    http://stevekemper.net/vermont_s_sle...oads_87100.htm

    --mark

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    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    State laws can trump feds. The fed says I can legally transport a firearm anywhere in the country, with some stipulations of course. Interstate transport law. The state of Mass says oh no you can't, at least, not without doing back flips through flaming hoops, that the fed never said I had to do.

    And the state of New York says no way, no how, no matter how many back flips you do, or we'll throw you in jail. There are only two ways you can legally transport a handgun through the state of New York. The first is to be on your way to/from a legally sanctioned shooting event in which you're participating, and the second is to have a New York handgun license, which they don't issue to nonresidents.

    --mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbvt
    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    State laws can trump feds. The fed says I can legally transport a firearm anywhere in the country, with some stipulations of course. Interstate transport law. The state of Mass says oh no you can't, at least, not without doing back flips through flaming hoops, that the fed never said I had to do.

    And the state of New York says no way, no how, no matter how many back flips you do, or we'll throw you in jail. There are only two ways you can legally transport a handgun through the state of New York. The first is to be on your way to/from a legally sanctioned shooting event in which you're participating, and the second is to have a New York handgun license, which they don't issue to nonresidents.

    --mark
    don't the feds have some sort of license they give to people who sell guns? Guy at my school was talking about something that permitted carrying in all 50

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    Lifer markbvt's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by WordTooYoMamma View Post
    Guy at my school was talking about something that permitted carrying in all 50
    Guy at your school was talking out of his ass, I'm afraid. There's no magic permit that allows civilians to carry in all 50 states.

    --mark

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
    And the state of New York says no way, no how, no matter how many back flips you do, or we'll throw you in jail. There are only two ways you can legally transport a handgun through the state of New York. The first is to be on your way to/from a legally sanctioned shooting event in which you're participating, and the second is to have a New York handgun license, which they don't issue to nonresidents.

    --mark
    ny isn't a state its a country with it's own laws just like nj and ca

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    Lifer catamount's Avatar
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    Question Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by sandman View Post
    ny isn't a state its a country with it's own laws just like nj and ca
    NY is a country?

    I did not know that!

    Next time I go over to T**** Road I'm gonna have to get my passport stamped!


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  21. #21
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    So when does everyone want to go dirty riding?



    These kooks are used to 4 or 5 riders...what about 30 or 40?

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    That's crazy I say we all make a trip over there : )

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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder27 View Post
    I gave an example above....that gated class IV road with a street sign is in Corinth VT.

    State laws can trump feds. The fed says I can legally transport a firearm anywhere in the country, with some stipulations of course. Interstate transport law. The state of Mass says oh no you can't, at least, not without doing back flips through flaming hoops, that the fed never said I had to do.
    state laws can go over and above federal law, but the federal law will still apply. usually its a "whichever is more restrictive" condition, if the sate or town is more restrictive, that wins.

    I dont know about directly confronting crazy nutjobs in the woods with a sportbike with a dead rear tire and nothing to shoot back with..... I think I may leave this one to the rednecks in lifted trucks out there.... just let them boys up a north country high know there are nutjobs preventing 4wheeling action and it'll all get cleared up well and good

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    Lifer DaveZX6r's Avatar
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Quote Originally Posted by yesterdayze View Post
    Wow, that is nuts...seriously... I should put up a gate across my road.... lol....

    It's people like this that give normal Christians bad names lol.
    So...anyone want to organize a ride through? Come on Dano, you said it is right near you... haha


    What these guys are doing has absolutely nothing to do with God or the bible they're just using it as a good excuse to do whatever they want, its like the nut jobs that blow up abortion clinics, claiming its gods will! Ironically enough I seem to remember hearing somewhere "Thou shalt not kill" was pretty far up there on the list of things to listen to.

    What a bunch of tools.

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  25. #25
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    Re: Vermont dual sport riders surrounded and threatened on class 4 road

    Crazed Chicken Pluckers!
    That's a dangerous trail.
    OT

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