VT/NY Group Ride

[markbvt]

I find it really hard to believe this is possible / they will attempt this on a curvy road like T.

Agreed. The more I think about it, the more I think that Moriah cop was just yanking everyone's chain. I could see them increasing patrols of T Rd with state police cruisers, but tasking a helicopter to patrol it makes no sense at all. It would be way too expensive, and T Rd isn't THAT big of a sportbike destination (that is to say, it doesn't get hundreds of riders a day... maybe what, 20 or 30?). Even if they wrote ten tickets a day, it wouldn't cover the cost of the gas for the chopper.

Still, this is all the more reason everyone should stick to the fucking speed limit and keep the revs down when riding through Moriah and Witherbee. Don't attract attention, for fuck's sake.

I didn't compromise shit

Actually, you wrote out the full name of BR Rd in the same sentence with the others, so it would be easy for someone to find the lot on Google Maps.

Of course, all of this info is widely available on this and other sites already anyway, but still...

--mark

[jcbell1007]

Just so you know...

Money from tickets don't go straight to the police departments, sheriff's offices, or state police. It goes into the general fund, sometimes the state, and sometimes the town, depending on what the ticket was written for.

99% of the money, the agency never sees, if any at all. tickets don't cover the costs of cruisers, gas, equipement, anything. that revenue gets sucked up into highway maintenance, parks, special alottments etc...

the reason its this way, is because tickets/enforcement are supposed to prevent certain behaviors. its a punishment to get someone not to do it again. effectively, if enforcement works the way its supposed to, it will get said behavior (in this case speeding) to stop. when the behavior stops, so do the tickets. if an agency budgeted on handing out x amount of speeding tickets in Y area, every month, eventually, people would learn not to speed in that area and you wouldn't be able to issue X amount of tickets, drying up an income source. Plus, ethically, PD's shouldn't have access to the money from tickets, padding their budgets. its not ethically/morally sound. hence why we never see the money from the tickets we issue.

so, the cost of putting a helo up is the cost of doing business. it's probably already part of the States budget and/or covered by a grant. thats why they have it, and in order to justify having it, they need to use it. so... i wouldn't be surprised if they do put it up once or twice.

also, i think the underlying issue and concern was brought across respectfully by the officer. he didn't swear, raise his voice, talk down to us, he was just trying to persuade us to ride someplace else. i think we all got the message he was trying to say

/soapbox

it was a great ride, one that I hope we get to do again, and soon.

[Uncle Snake]

Still, this is all the more reason everyone should stick to the fucking speed limit and keep the revs down when riding through Moriah and Witherbee. Don't attract attention, for fuck's sake.
--mark

Best message so far.

[SVenpointsixtwo]

Hey jcbell, just out of curiosity which department are you with?

[catamount]

I know I'm not the only one who has found upstate NY troopers slightly mysterious. I was stopped for 11 mph over on Route 9 a couple of years back. We were going in opposite directions and as soon as I saw his brake lights I pulled over. My helmet was off and paperwork in hand before he got back to me.

He wanted to chat about the bike so we did that and then he thanked me for pulling over and handed me the ticket.

He said he was writing it so I'd avoid points and the offense marked was something like "obstructing the right-of-way during a parade". It was really that obscure (it was a rainy weeknight in June, barely any other traffic much less a parade).

So I mailed in my guilty plea and was floored when I received the fine in the mail. I can't remember the specifics now but it was in the hundreds. They had me by the balls as I had already declared myself guilty.

The check was not made out to the State Police or NY DMV. It was to be made out to the local town office.

Extremely shady. Talked it over with an officer friend and he said there is "something fishy" going on with the upstate ticket issuance. It seems that if officers issue tickets for violations of local ordinance, the revenue stays local. At least that was his best guess.

I try to avoid NY troopers and don't necessarily believe that they aren't playing games with the revenue generation.

[F4Iguy]

he DIDN'T swear, raise his voice, talk down to us, he was just trying to persuade us to ride someplace else.

fixd.

[jcbell1007]

wow!! my bad

:facepalm:

[F4Iguy]

wow!! my bad

:facepalm:

fixed. again.

[markbvt]

I try to avoid NY troopers and don't necessarily believe that they aren't playing games with the revenue generation.

I agree. I don't necessarily blame the troopers, but rather the bureaucrats who've put the system in place. There is a LOT of fishy stuff going on in upstate NY.

It would be interesting to have an honest chat with a NY state trooper off the record and find out what sort of orders they're issued. I have heard that the reason there's such a heavy police presence in upstate NY is purely driven by revenue generation. Apparently ticket writing is so lucrative for the state's coffers that they've hired plenty of additional state troopers to increase coverage of the more rural areas.

It should also be noted that NY is notorious for having a town surcharge on top of the actual fine, plus NY was one of the first states to pioneer the "driver responsibility" surcharge (if you build up more than six points in NY, you get charged an extra $150, I think it is, for each additional point, which if I recall correctly is payable over three years). Interestingly, this surcharge is payable to the NY DMV, even if you're not a NY resident.

On an only slightly related note, there's also NY's stance on out-of-state guns to think about. According to federal law, it's legal to transport a handgun through any state provided it's unloaded and cased, with ammunition stored separately. Try testing that in NY. State law says it's illegal for a nonresident to transport a handgun through the state no matter how it's stored, and if you're caught, the consequences are dire. You'll spend quite a while in jail before your appeal makes it to a federal court willing to tell the NY state government that it's breaking the law of the land.

--mark

[jcbell1007]

Just remembered, forgot to say something yesterday, but the first run through. I met 3 TT units and a couple of cars/trucks that were seriously haulin ass through T-Road.

[Slyder]

It would be interesting to have an honest chat with a NY state trooper off the record and find out what sort of orders they're issued.

--mark

I can't comment on upstate NY where we ride, though Catamount apparently got shafted something fierce. I can however comment on the coppers down on long island. Needless to say, NOT good. It's like the absolutely hate anyone and everyone on sport bikes. They'll set up random check points, stop everyone on rice rockets, bullet bikes, sport bikes "if it looks fast stop it"...."if it has full fairing stop it" and so on. Needless to say if your papers aren't in order, bike gets impounded you get massive fines. They'll try to hit you with whatever they can, improper tag location, blinkers, mirrors, anything. First hand reports of bikes lined up waiting to get towed.

So that was on the Island, but still, made me think twice about screwing off too much anywhere in NY. T and EP sure. But there's a time and a place, well kinda. In front of peoples houses and in town...not the place to be bouncing off rev limiters...wait till ya get outta town and away from houses.

Speaking of locals hauling ass on those roads, believe me or not, a friend followed some maniac in a dump truck, not a 10 wheeler, probably more like an F350 or ram 3500 with a dump body...do 60 over EP. The guy in the truck waved him by but he motioned to the guy to keep going. He was enjoying himself watching that. Kept a safe distance because he thought the guy in the truck was swamp bound, but he stayed on the road.

[SVenpointsixtwo]

They'll set up random check points, stop everyone on rice rockets, bullet bikes, sport bikes "if it looks fast stop it"...."if it has full fairing stop it" and so on. Needless to say if your papers aren't in order, bike gets impounded you get massive fines. They'll try to hit you with whatever they can, improper tag location, blinkers, mirrors, anything. First hand reports of bikes lined up waiting to get towed.

Solution: streetfighters, my man! I got stopped doing 22 over in a 50 zone on my old CBR 'fighter. My wallet was quite literally in my other pants, so I had no license, no registration, no proof of insurance on me. My bike had no signals, no mirrors, non-DOT headlight, 'obscured' plate, no backlight on the gauges (hence the 22 over), and was way out of inspection. I pulled over right away as soon as I saw blue lights (I'm not THAT much of a hooligan).

The officer asks me if it's a ducati.... and told me he was glad I didn't run like most other bikers try to. Also asked if I crashed it because it didn't have any plastics (no sir, I just want to ride a machine, not a toy... don't like how most FF rice rockets look). I think he was glad I was a responsible rider, wearing full gear, didn't try to run, and wasn't riding a typical squidly rice burner, so he was nice enough to let me off with a warning despite lack of paperwork.

I guess some cops are cool.... but I think not looking like a typical sportbiker has its advantages too!

[markbvt]

So that was on the Island, but still, made me think twice about screwing off too much anywhere in NY. T and EP sure. But there's a time and a place, well kinda. In front of peoples houses and in town...not the place to be bouncing off rev limiters...wait till ya get outta town and away from houses.

Agreed... and I'll go a bit further (and here's where some of you are going to roll your eyes and think, "Shut up, Mark...") and say that even out on T and EP roads, there's no need to hit triple digits or anything. Avoid the urge to pin it in the straights -- try to ride the whole thing at as constant a speed as you can. The speed limit is 45 (I think?). Try maintaining a constant, say, 55 on T Rd the whole length of it. Some of the turns, no problem. Some of the others are a bit more of a challenge.

Or turn into the opposite of a squid and stick to the speed limit in the straights, then speed up in the corners. Preferably, with an actual squid behind you.

--mark

[jcbell1007]

Agreed... and I'll go a bit further (and here's where some of you are going to roll your eyes and think, "Shut up, Mark...") and say that even out on T and EP roads, there's no need to hit triple digits or anything. Avoid the urge to pin it in the straights -- try to ride the whole thing at as constant a speed as you can. The speed limit is 45 (I think?). Try maintaining a constant, say, 55 on T Rd the whole length of it. Some of the turns, no problem. Some of the others are a bit more of a challenge.

Or turn into the opposite of a squid and stick to the speed limit in the straights, then speed up in the corners. Preferably, with an actual squid behind you.

--mark

Mark, I'm glad you spoke up because thats exactly what I did the other day. The last speed limit sign says "end 45" on T road. I see corner advisory speed signs (yellow) but no other speed signs, so I'm assuming the limit is 55 the entire route.

I never broke 60 the entire way, not even in the straights. I would slow down a little bit just before the corner so i could accellerate through, and still had a great time. It wasn't knee down, but I came withing 1/4" or so of erasing my chicken strips completely and still felt awesome. And yes, I was miles behind everyone else (even KB's twofiddy) but that doesn't bother me at all.

[Uncle Snake]

They WILL ticket you for exceeding the yellow 35mph signs. They will even follow the ambulance to the emergency room to deliver the ticket......

[markbvt]

They WILL ticket you for exceeding the yellow 35mph signs. They will even follow the ambulance to the emergency room to deliver the ticket......

Really? I always thought those yellow signs were cautions, not actual speed limits.

--mark

[Uncle Snake]

Really? I always thought those yellow signs were cautions, not actual speed limits.

--mark

So did we......

[jcbell1007]

Different in VT then.

But, if you exceed the advisory limit, and ball it up in the corner, then there is a statute labeled " driving too fast for conditions" which could be issued.

[markbvt]

But, if you exceed the advisory limit, and ball it up in the corner, then there is a statute labeled " driving too fast for conditions" which could be issued.

Yeah, my guess is that's what was behind your ticket, Jake.

In many states you can apparently also be ticketed for driving the speed limit in inclement weather (especially snow) for the same reason.

--mark

[Uncle Snake]

Different in VT then.

But, if you exceed the advisory limit, and ball it up in the corner, then there is a statute labeled " driving too fast for conditions" which could be issued.

Tickets were for speeding, 50 in a 35 and "unsafe lane change"......

It was a left hand corner, I hit a rock with my front tire, ended up getting wiggled wide and went off roading. Go figure......

[Trouble]

Gotta say, it's good of the officer to not just go to one of the roads you mentioned and lie in wait. He could have already marked down a couple of license plate #'s and ID'd the bikes as you went blasting past. Or go around to the other end of T Road and wait at the last pull off.

[markbvt]

There sometimes are state troopers on T Rd, so it's a very good idea to make your first run a recon one at the speed limit. This obviously also lets you find out which corners have gravel in them without putting yourself at excessive risk.

--mark

[MotoFreak]

+1 on a Recon Run