Turn 6

[Doc]

So... I am coming over the hill, about middle of the track (per E.W's Suggestion). Last year there were 2 burnout marks that I basically used as my "chute", while aiming for the lamp post in the parking lot. I would hold WFO until the "chute", trail the brakes until my left shoulder was about even with the apex cone and then throw it in there... drifted out to the rumble strips then back to the cone in 7...

I am looking for more markers for 6. It seems like one of my slowest corners and somewhere I think I can make up some time.

Suggestions? Tips?






Let me get this out of the way.

Doc Sucks

[csmutty]

Rumble strips? What are those?

[Doc]

Rumble strips? What are those?

Gator teeth?

Oh yeah they paved em. Ok to the edge of the new pavement out near the gravel.

[KB]

Gator teeth?

Oh yeah they paved em. Ok to the edge of the new pavement out near the gravel.

Yeah that new pavement where the alligator teeth used to be is not part of the racing line.

KB

[OreoGaborio]

The interesting thing about the bowl is that there's just so many lines into it that can be made to work, so long as you get back on the power and use the right trajectory to get out of it.

Yeah, I used those two tire marks as my chute, too. And I generally keep the cones on the right in my peripheral with the ground up pavement & apex cone in my central vision as I approach my turn-in point which is a little right of center and about even with the second to last cone? I think? Not sure which one but I know it when I get to it. Then I get my eyes up the hill as soon as I start turning in.

[csmutty]

I don't go out nearly that far. Try to keep it closer and lean just a little bit harder to reduce the amount of track you are using?

[KB]

Watch Babcock and you will see how the bowl is done right and fast on a lightweight bike his head turn is perfect.

KB

[OreoGaborio]

Interestingly enough, you'll see Babcock & Doucette take wildly different entry lines from time to time, but their exits are always very similar.

[union]

Interestingly enough, you'll see Babcock & Doucette take wildly different entry lines from time to time, but their exits are always very similar.

I had Doucette as my advanced class 1on 1 instructor. I had a ton of questions after the session he showed me how to get through the bowl. Certainly a lot different then what I was doing what was through the middle of the tire marks. Think I might have to take the class again this year now that I have a better perspective on racing and what questions to ask.

[Doc]

I hate to use cones as reference...I'm trying to find more permanent ones. I always feel kinda vague at tip in... other corners I know my spot but 6, during a race, at full tilt is a challenge. I hear how everyone loves that corner but I honestly like 3 and 9 better. Heck I even like 12/12a.

I know I need to work on my head turn there to help me get the bike pointed better. I always look to the edge of the track near the new pavement then to the 7 cone then to that little patch of broken track in 8 before the tree house...

During a trackday doing 1:25's or so I can take a bunch of different lines in 6. Late brake on the outside and rail around em, shoot up the inside and late brake ala Gino and late apex... It is just when i am trying to stay on "the line" that I am vague.

[smf]

at 1:25's anyone can run _any_ line. watch a fast (lightweight) expert through 6 during a race. i dropped 0.5s studying babcock from the bleachers and adjusting my lines next time out.

[Paul_E_D]

That's funny. Babcock once told me he would follow me into 6 and wonder where the hell I was going, then I'd be pulling away from him into 7/8. Bottom line is, there are a few ways to get through there fast. and using the new pavement where the rumble strip is definitely one of them, but that's only really necessary if you are forced to turn in early like when passing up the inside or defending your position. Careful not to spin it up when the camber goes flat though...

["Dangerous" Dan K]

T6 is easy. Wheelie T5, turn right, go through the fence and you're in T2. Just saved yourself half a lap! Hi Jim!

For real, I use Dana's line. It's something like "hold the throttle WAY too long, trust the camber of the turn to check you up, pitch it left on it's ear and whack it open". I legit have no markers for 6... I just wait until I've filled the leathers, wait another half breath, and then grab the brakes like I'm trying to stoppie. Markers would be nice, and I have them everywhere else, but I don't have a brake marker for T6. I wonder how many of us don't? DDK, Doc, 6... who else?

[CBR929RE]

T6 is easy. Wheelie T5, turn right, go through the fence and you're in T2. Just saved yourself half a lap! Hi Jim!

For real, I use Dana's line. It's something like "hold the throttle WAY too long, trust the camber of the turn to check you up, pitch it left on it's ear and whack it open". I legit have no markers for 6... I just wait until I've filled the leathers, wait another half breath, and then grab the brakes like I'm trying to stoppie. Markers would be nice, and I have them everywhere else, but I don't have a brake marker for T6. I wonder how many of us don't? DDK, Doc, 6... who else?

that's backwards. now you have to do 3,4,5 again thus making your lap longer. and then you find yourself right back in 2 and gotta do it all over again. its a vicious endless cycle.


I actually don't think I have many markers for anywhere. I know I have to have some but there's very few I can actually tell you without actually being right there doing it. Its something I really wanna work on this year.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

that's backwards. now you have to do 3,4,5 again thus making your lap longer. and then you find yourself right back in 2 and gotta do it all over again. its a vicious endless cycle.


I actually don't think I have many markers for anywhere. I know I have to have some but there's very few I can actually tell you without actually being right there doing it. Its something I really wanna work on this year.

Fuck. Good point!

I have brake markers for everywhere I use them, aside from T6. I could tell you every one of them from my bed.

[Trouble]

Careful not to spin it up when the camber goes flat though...

He's on a Hawk. Just sayin'...

[zx1012r]

Yeah that new pavement where the alligator teeth used to be is not part of the racing line.

KB

It's a very use-able part of the track! But like Paul said, just be aware it flattens out. Just feels like the rear is slipping a little.

[xsiliconkid]

Fuck. Good point!

I have brake markers for everywhere I use them, aside from T6. I could tell you every one of them from my bed.

I use the cones on the outside going downhill towards t6 for brake markers - they are usually in the same spot (on the blue painted dots). One lap and you know if they are in the right spot.

There seems to be two basic lines into T6.
an inside/tighter line - good for holding throttle on longer coming inside someone and blocking their exit line - you will go wider, higher, and slower on exit.
The other wider entry line is starting 2/3 to the right of track as you crest t5 and aim straight for the (wider) tip in point for T6. At the crest of T5 line up/ aim at second last double cone set way down the hill- from the tip in point you are on the gas before the T6 Apex.

There is an optical illusion in T6: - from T5 it looks like the tip in point to T6 is almost as far down as the T6 Apex cone on the left. But looking back from T7 it is still well before the Apex. When we put down X markers on track-days and walk the track it is very visible the turn in point is still well before the apex when observed from T7 . Your senses will try and convince you to tip in too early..

Finally, T6 is typically a late/wide turn in(apex turn) so you get on the gas early to take advantage of carrying that speed all the way down the "straight" to T9. (slower in faster out turn)

Typical rule of thumb for any track –reading the track
- if following a turn there is a "straight" (E.g.NHMS T2,T6, T10 a later/wider entry works best to take advantage of earlier on the gas. (slower in faster out)
Example of a early/tighter line into a turn, NHMS T1. There is no straight after the turn. A wider enty line- being able to get on the gas early has no real benefit/advantage after the turn – better to carry speed deeper into the turn, more upright, later harder braking. (faster in –slower out).

[zx1012r]

Light weight bikes- come right down the middle of the track (there's a seam split-keep just to the left of it). FIND YOURSELF A BRAKING MARKER (NOT A CONE!). I apex a good 15 to 20 feet before the painted (or coned) apex. Trail brake almost all the way to the curbing (YOUR apex NOT the painted one). As soon as you're off the brakes pick up the throttle a little bit. The beauty of 6 is the banking keeps the front loaded pretty good. Then roll on the throttle hard. Let it drift all the way out to the outside (dipping onto the new apron is optional) and if you take a shift, do it while mostly upright. (I use standard shifting and have NEVER had a problem on either bike with my toe being ground off). Continue WOT to the apex of where the tree used to be ( is that 6A, 7 ?) wash, rinse, repeat!

[KB]

It's a very use-able part of the track! But like Paul said, just be aware it flattens out. Just feels like the rear is slipping a little.

Ok I guess it's a "useable" part of the track but certainly not the best place to be!

KB

[zx1012r]

Ok I guess it's a "useable" part of the track but certainly not the best place to be!

KB

It is if you complete the pass! Don't fear the apron!

[KB]

It is if you complete the pass! Don't fear the apron!

FUCK THAT!!

KB

[SVRACER01]

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KB, just take the apron all the way around. Then its flat.

I'm not sure if its the right way, especially from a racing perspective but I take a wide entry into t6.

I think I brake at the second cone (ironically, its usually the one with reflective tape on it).

I think I tip in at the last cone.

Trail brake almost to the apex/cone

Start rolling on the gas and be about 3/4 throttle by the apex.

Drift out and still be accelerating

Wfo before t7
It's tough to remember exacts but that's about it. I might even be full throttle at the t6 apex

[Ken C]

I stay in the middle of the track, wait until the hill levels off/slight incline before turning (near the double cones and about 15 feet? from the edge of the track) and then turn hard and fast down toward the apex. I usually apex 5-10 feet before the apex cone with my wheels no more than 3 feet away from the curbing. During track days there is no need to kill myself, so I only trailbrake a little...instead, I tip in fast and crack the throttle before the apex and roll on the gas smoothly, then firmly up to the outside of 6.

[OreoGaborio]

Do a youtube search for "888 LRRS" or look up youtube user "rcuchyahoocom" if you wanna see some of the lightweight expert guys do it (video taken by Chris Cucinotta). He's got a whole bunch of vids & some have good footage of Doucette & Babcock. You'll see a lot of me as well, but I still have a lot of room for improvement through there.

EDIT: Here's a google link for ya. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...qi=m1&aql=&oq=