250/300 class for LRRS next year?

[Jim]

so in Ptwins you could only do a pipe? like slip-on or full exhaust?
what about stuff like brake lines, suspension, etc?

not sure what the race definition of stock is.

[tsorfas]

I think motards should be excluded no matter what

[Sheppo]

what about a Hyosung 250?
http://www.momsnh.com/2004HyosungGT2...27241101723#/0
http://www.momsnh.com/2010-Hyosung-G...itBrand=502#/0

[PainfullySlow]

I would assume that the Hyosung would fall into the same category of the ninja250. The KTM would likely be a class killer as stated however that doesnt make it any less sexy of a bike :-p That lil thing looks fun like crazy!

[nt650hawk]

there are some other 250 that you are not thinking of..

[Mr. Kurtz]

I think motards should be excluded no matter what

....

[Kurlon]

so in Ptwins you could only do a pipe? like slip-on or full exhaust?
what about stuff like brake lines, suspension, etc?

not sure what the race definition of stock is.

Old PTwins you couldn't do a pipe/slip on, exhaust was one of the items specified that had to be OEM stock. Shock could be replaced but had to use the OEM mounts without modification. Forks could be worked over but you had to retain the OEM upper and lower limiting your options there. (Basically SuperSport suspension rules.) Other allowed changes are spelled out in the production rules list, steel braided brake lines are ok, no internal engine mods at all, have to retain a headlight shell and keep the reg/rect plugged in, etc. Section 19 of the rulebook IIRC has the production class rules.

Eric: To keep the crazy fiends (like me) at bay make sure the normal CCS single cylinder blindspot is NOT present for the class. ULTB as written says any engine, any frame may be used if it's a single. CBR250R with a CRF250R motor that's been worked over, legal. Think the CBR's chassis is too heavy, build around a different one, like say a NSR125 one... hello escalation!

Unfortunately, I dunno what to suggest for a class structure that will accommodate the KTM, plus the two Ninjas AND the CBR and have them all be competitive with each other while keeping costs in check. Given what the other series are doing, and the gentlemen's agreement in the southeastern CCS ULTB region I'd start with supersport rules and a list of allowed bikes rather than the normal engine design / displacement binning. Ninja 300 all years, Ninja 250 all years, CBR250R all years and the KTM 390 if it shows up, all supersport and see what develops. Bikes from other orgs will be able to slot right in, and racers from LRRS will slot into the other series. With that base rule structure I'd allow 'motards' based on again specific bikes, Yamaha WR250R, Yamaha XT250, Honda CRF250L, etc. Just restrict them to normal SS wheel rules to start. (IE 18/16 to 17 conversion is fine, must retain OEM width though.)

Proposed LRRS ULSS Rules:
Kawasaki EX250
Kawasaki EX300
Kawasaki KLX250S
Honda CBR250R
Honda CRF250L
Honda Rebel 200/250
Suzuki GW250
Suzuki DR200SE
Yamaha WR250R
Yamaha XT250
Yamaha V-Star 250
Hyosung GT250 / GT250R
Hyosung GV250
KTM 390
Husqvarna TE310R

Only listed bikes may enter, all other bikes are excluded from the Ultralightweight class.

20.1.2.6 and 20.1.2.7 are waived for ULSS. All other SuperSport rules except where noted otherwise will be enforced.

LRRS reserves the right to impose additional restrictions on specific makes and models as needed to maintain class balance. LRRS also reserves the right to allow additional modifications outside of those allowed by SuperSport rules on specific makes and models as needed to maintain class balance. Make and model exemptions will be announced at the riders' meeting two rounds prior to going into effect.

Gino: LRRS/CCS requires 15" wheels minimum on ANY bike competing, otherwise my, er Sav's pitbike would be out there already.

[OreoGaborio]

so in Ptwins you could only do a pipe? like slip-on or full exhaust?
what about stuff like brake lines, suspension, etc?

not sure what the race definition of stock is.

You could jet, but exhaust actually had to remain pretty much stock. Slip-ons actually weren't allowed.

Pads, rotors, brake lines, shock, fork internals... that was about it.



I'd love to do this, but I'd have to ditch the SV and I've finally got it close to where I want it... Not to mention that I still want to try my hand at racing a 600.

[nt650hawk]

Josh you did not get my point...

The SportCity is driven by a 22.5 hp, electronic fuel injected, 244.29cc, 15-inch wheels

[FirstDuc-1098]

...otherwise my, er Sav's pitbike would be out there already.

that thing is kick ass!!!

[Kurlon]

Josh you did not get my point...

The SportCity is driven by a 22.5 hp, electronic fuel injected, 244.29cc, 15-inch wheels

This is where building the class around only allowed makes/models comes in handy, just because it's the right displacement, doesn't mean it has to be allowed. I started my rules proposal with a BROAD swath of bikes, I should add a note that says LRRS reserves the right to expand or shrink the allowed bike list as needed too...

[nt650hawk]

you going to refund me now...

This is where building the class around only allowed makes/models comes in handy, just because it's the right displacement, doesn't mean it has to be allowed. I started my rules proposal with a BROAD swath of bikes, I should add a note that says LRRS reserves the right to expand or shrink the allowed bike list as needed too...

[Lucas]

I would hope at least exhaust/air filter/tune. I think a lot of new riders would be drawn to the tuning aspect of racing.

[MarkMarine]

If kawi's gauntlet throwing with the 300 is any indication, we might get some healthy competition in this class from the OEMs, so factoring bikes by specific model could be tough, as it isn't very future proof. If you want my opinion, why not a series like spec miata, where everyone is on the *same* bike, and allowed to make some small amount (SuperSport Type) modifications. That will keep the cost way down and the competition even, and someone who had a mind for marketing could probably get some sponsorship money from that OEM (be it Honda or Kawi)
I'd love to race in a series where I knew I wasn't going to get out-motored, and I think it's a great way to get people hooked on racing for a low entry cost and lower risk than Novices on liter-bikes (and I was one, so I reserve the right to make fun of my own stupid choices)

[Kurlon]

you going to refund me now...

Nope, no refunds. I will however keep chasing Henry with my pack of angry bees though!

[csmutty]

If kawi's gauntlet throwing with the 300 is any indication, we might get some healthy competition in this class from the OEMs, so factoring bikes by specific model could be tough, as it isn't very future proof. If you want my opinion, why not a series like spec miata, where everyone is on the *same* bike, and allowed to make some small amount (SuperSport Type) modifications. That will keep the cost way down and the competition even, and someone who had a mind for marketing could probably get some sponsorship money from that OEM (be it Honda or Kawi)
I'd love to race in a series where I knew I wasn't going to get out-motored, and I think it's a great way to get people hooked on racing for a low entry cost and lower risk than Novices on liter-bikes (and I was one, so I reserve the right to make fun of my own stupid choices)

Ss for everyone would not make this even guys...

[nt650hawk]

I'd love to race in a series where I knew I wasn't going to get out-motored

And that was one of there reasons WHY I went with an older outdated bike and underpowered. To be and underdog and Prove em all wrong. oh yea rune B-Stones as well.

[Woodcraft]

I can tell you this: over the next month or so we will know more about other stuff like the KTM. Right now there is no firm word if they are even coming to the US in street form. We will be designing the rules so that there will be no class killer, no matter what.

[nt650hawk]

I can tell you this: over the next month or so we will know more about other stuff like the KTM. Right now there is no firm word if they are even coming to the US in street form. We will be designing the rules so that there will be no class killer, no matter what.

JOSH!!!!!!LOL

[Woodcraft]

Old PTwins you couldn't do a pipe/slip on, exhaust was one of the items specified that had to be OEM stock. Shock could be replaced but had to use the OEM mounts without modification. Forks could be worked over but you had to retain the OEM upper and lower limiting your options there. (Basically SuperSport suspension rules.) Other allowed changes are spelled out in the production rules list, steel braided brake lines are ok, no internal engine mods at all, have to retain a headlight shell and keep the reg/rect plugged in, etc. Section 19 of the rulebook IIRC has the production class rules.

Eric: To keep the crazy fiends (like me) at bay make sure the normal CCS single cylinder blindspot is NOT present for the class. ULTB as written says any engine, any frame may be used if it's a single. CBR250R with a CRF250R motor that's been worked over, legal. Think the CBR's chassis is too heavy, build around a different one, like say a NSR125 one... hello escalation!

Unfortunately, I dunno what to suggest for a class structure that will accommodate the KTM, plus the two Ninjas AND the CBR and have them all be competitive with each other while keeping costs in check. Given what the other series are doing, and the gentlemen's agreement in the southeastern CCS ULTB region I'd start with supersport rules and a list of allowed bikes rather than the normal engine design / displacement binning. Ninja 300 all years, Ninja 250 all years, CBR250R all years and the KTM 390 if it shows up, all supersport and see what develops. Bikes from other orgs will be able to slot right in, and racers from LRRS will slot into the other series. With that base rule structure I'd allow 'motards' based on again specific bikes, Yamaha WR250R, Yamaha XT250, Honda CRF250L, etc. Just restrict them to normal SS wheel rules to start. (IE 18/16 to 17 conversion is fine, must retain OEM width though.)

Proposed LRRS ULSS Rules:
Kawasaki EX250
Kawasaki EX300
Kawasaki KLX250S
Honda CBR250R
Honda CRF250L
Honda Rebel 200/250
Suzuki GW250
Suzuki DR200SE
Yamaha WR250R
Yamaha XT250
Yamaha V-Star 250
Hyosung GT250 / GT250R
Hyosung GV250
KTM 390
Husqvarna TE310R

Only listed bikes may enter, all other bikes are excluded from the Ultralightweight class.

20.1.2.6 and 20.1.2.7 are waived for ULSS. All other SuperSport rules except where noted otherwise will be enforced.

LRRS reserves the right to impose additional restrictions on specific makes and models as needed to maintain class balance. LRRS also reserves the right to allow additional modifications outside of those allowed by SuperSport rules on specific makes and models as needed to maintain class balance. Make and model exemptions will be announced at the riders' meeting two rounds prior to going into effect.

Gino: LRRS/CCS requires 15" wheels minimum on ANY bike competing, otherwise my, er Sav's pitbike would be out there already.

I like the idea of listing the "included" bikes for this class. Good thought there.

[xsiliconkid]

Right now the thinking is Ultralight "300" class so the limit is 300cc so even if the KTM 390 Duke comes into the USA - it would not qualify.
KTM also has a four stroke 300W but it is
a) not in the country (yet)
b) is pure off road even if the VIN kind of implies it could be registered.
c) that bike is $8,500 and another $2Kish for 17" wheels and front brakes.

[xsiliconkid]

Also to rule may state something like the following (to stop cost escalation, frankenX bikes, and essentially pure off road race machines).
"Machines must be based upon production models, sold by manufacturers and their dealers in North America and out of the box registered for street use.

[nhbubba]

I would hope at least exhaust/air filter/tune. I think a lot of new riders would be drawn to the tuning aspect of racing.

Not me. I have no interest in tuning and would hate to get beat by someone who just paid a top shop to tune for them.
Honestly, I find the very idea of tuning EFI bikes a total yawn.

[Larry]

I agree with very restrictive rules that keep costs down. Racing is expensive no matter what but we could lure more people in with low cost, close racing. The Legends cars don't seem to be pulling in spectators as Was hoped. If we expect our friends and family to come and watch it has to be fun, exciting, and affordable for everyone.

[RacerXnh10]

Oh boy. Might be time to lose 40lbs and find me a 300...