250/300 class for LRRS next year?

[Kurlon]

Seeing as I did the research for a different discussion, might as well share. This is what other racing orgs are doing that I'm aware of:

WERA - E Superstock - 250 Twins, 250 Singles, slightly more restrictive than LRRS SuperSport. Wheels may be swapped to 17s but they have to weigh as much or MORE than the OEM wheels.

CMRA - E Superstock - EX250, VTR250, CBR250R, Buell Blast. Basically WERA Superstock rules, plus open airbox mods, absolutely no engine mods.

CCS - Ultralight Thunderbike - Singles up to 300cc with no restrictions on frame or engine, Twin cylinder air cooled up to 350cc, liquid cooled twins up to 300cc. RS125 and MD250 excluded as complete units, use of their engines however is legal in another chassis. Note, none of the regions with active racers in the class are going by this rule structure, they're all operating under a gentlemen's agreement to go by CCS SuperStock rules. Last year's ROC winner in ULTB was on a SuperStock legal Ninja 250. http://specclassracing.com/ https://www.facebook.com/specclassracing

CSBK - Honda CBR250R Cup - CBR250Rs only, SuperStock plus mandated DynoJet PowerCommander, bikes are randomly weighed and dyno'd to enforce compliance.

WMRC - 250 Gold Cup - 2008 and up Ninja 250, 2011 and up CBR250R only, SuperStock rules with Dyno verification.

WMRC - 250 Supersport - 250cc fourstrokes only, slightly more restrictive than CCS SuperSport rules.

[union]

Ok heres my take on this.

A new affordable class seems pretty cool. It looks like a nice less intimidating way to get into racing without braking the bank.

I see two issues.

First as always we have what seems to be a lot of interest but come race 1 who is really going to show? If everyone that is talking about doing it show then its going to be nice big grid. For some reason I dont see that happening. I know we are going to run the class next year but maybe we should look for people to actually commit to being there. Maybe have the people that keep saying they are going to do it pay the entry fee up front for the year. If they dont show first weekend then they lose it. If they show then their entry is already paid. In the case something happens after the season starts and they cant make the remaining races the fee is refunded. Hopefully it will prevent the usual "ya Ill be there" we usually get and then having them no show when the racing starts.

Second issue is the rules. Lets get them settled sooner then later. A couple of years ago we didnt get the LRRS rule book until we went through tech the first weekend. WAY TOO LATE! For most of the classes the rules didnt change but with a complete new class who knows that the rules really are. These rules need to be settled before this season ends. No one wants to show up to find out they could have gone a little further or they went a little too far on their build. The rules need to be set and in print asap.

[tsorfas]

Josh you should be part of the lrrs. No joke or sarcasm here!
You are so methodical and do extensive research, you are a great person to discuss with and pass information along.
Do it! We needs people like you!

[tsorfas]

Paying entree fee before class rules are out is not happening in the real world.
But I def agree that rules need to be out ASAP.

Lots of people cancelled or didn't enter the endurance race because the rules came out a week or two prior.
I think next year it's gonna be the biggest grid of the event!

[Larry]

I know there will be a cbr250r and a ninja 300 coming out of my trailer in April 2014. They will stay bone stock until official rules are written and even then, I doubt any mods will happen.

[soofle616]

Paying entree fee before class rules are out is not happening in the real world.
But I def agree that rules need to be out ASAP.

Lots of people cancelled or didn't enter the endurance race because the rules came out a week or two prior.
I think next year it's gonna be the biggest grid of the event!

agreed. I have no problem paying up front to ensure the class happens but only after I've seen the official rules. I'm not committing to something until the details are ironed out and in print.

[Woodcraft]

Ok heres my take on this.

A new affordable class seems pretty cool. It looks like a nice less intimidating way to get into racing without braking the bank.

I see two issues.

First as always we have what seems to be a lot of interest but come race 1 who is really going to show? If everyone that is talking about doing it show then its going to be nice big grid. For some reason I dont see that happening. I know we are going to run the class next year but maybe we should look for people to actually commit to being there. Maybe have the people that keep saying they are going to do it pay the entry fee up front for the year. If they dont show first weekend then they lose it. If they show then their entry is already paid. In the case something happens after the season starts and they cant make the remaining races the fee is refunded. Hopefully it will prevent the usual "ya Ill be there" we usually get and then having them no show when the racing starts.

Second issue is the rules. Lets get them settled sooner then later. A couple of years ago we didnt get the LRRS rule book until we went through tech the first weekend. WAY TOO LATE! For most of the classes the rules didnt change but with a complete new class who knows that the rules really are. These rules need to be settled before this season ends. No one wants to show up to find out they could have gone a little further or they went a little too far on their build. The rules need to be set and in print asap.

agreed on the rules.....that is why we chose to announce our intentions now instead of mid winter. We figured it would start the conversation up (mission accomplished) and get us all the tools we needed to make this class as successful as possible. The goal is to have the rules all set and published before the end of this season so that everyone can make plans early for 2014. We will be doing something different than the other organizations - our own flavor of this class if you will - with the goal to make a rules package that makes as many models as possible competitive.

[xsiliconkid]

I know there will be a cbr250r and a ninja 300 coming out of my trailer in April 2014. They will stay bone stock until official rules are written and even then, I doubt any mods will happen.

cbr250r v ninja 300
http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/...inja-300-32492

[Lucas]

Do you know how many races there will be per day or per weekend in this class? Just trying to get an idea of the cost.

[csmutty]

Do you know how many races there will be per day or per weekend in this class? Just trying to get an idea of the cost.

Each class has 1 race per weekend. I would assume to get more races people would be entering ULSB and maybe some LW races as well to get more racing if it's their only bike.

[tsorfas]

cbr250r v ninja 300
http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/...inja-300-32492

That's loooong

[Lucas]

Each class has 1 race per weekend. I would assume to get more races people would be entering ULSB and maybe some LW races as well to get more racing if it's their only bike.

So that one race would be competitive but you'd most likely get spanked in the other races no? Especially if your bike set up is close to stock?

[csmutty]

So that one race would be competitive but you'd most likely get spanked in the other races no? Especially if your bike set up is close to stock?

Correct. I bet there will be other 250's racing in ULSB class as well so you'd have some competition there.

[Lucas]

So on an average weekend if I did one race per day what am I looking at for total cost/fees?

[rolker]

If anyone is looking for target times, here are some PTwins results from the last round of racing:

Michael Vaughan, 01:31.156, 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250
Jonathan Vaughan, 01:30.995 26, 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250

[csmutty]

So on an average weekend if I did one race per day what am I looking at for total cost/fees?

Well I am going to guess your tires would last about 2 years of racing. So $400 for tires / 14 weekends is $28.50/weekend. Gas for a weekend will probably be 3 gallons @ $4 a gallon (to make math easy)...$12. Camping is $25 unless you just do one day. Entry to the infield is $25 unless you just do one day then its $15. Food for the weekend...I'm sure you can figure that out. Race license is $150/year /7=$21/weekend. Transponder rental is free the first few weekends. I think it's $30/weekend or buy one after that? Race entry is $65/class.

[Lucas]

Well I am going to guess your tires would last about 2 years of racing. So $400 for tires / 14 weekends is $28.50/weekend. Gas for a weekend will probably be 3 gallons @ $4 a gallon (to make math easy)...$12. Camping is $25 unless you just do one day. Entry to the infield is $25 unless you just do one day then its $15. Food for the weekend...I'm sure you can figure that out. Race license is $150/year /7=$21/weekend. Transponder rental is free the first few weekends. I think it's $30/weekend or buy one after that? Race entry is $65/class.

I meant just the race and entry fees for the weekend but all that helps, thank you. With both practice sessions in the AM, would you guess doing one race per day would log you more track time and be cheaper than track days or no?

[tsorfas]

I meant just the race and entry fees for the weekend but all that helps, thank you. With both practice sessions in the AM, would you guess doing one race per day would log you more track time and be cheaper than track days or no?

With brain math (not pen and paper no).
Practice 1 = 8 minutes
Practice 2 = 12 minutes
Race = 6 or 8 laps depending on delays etc. round 3 and 4 my Sunday races were shortened to 6 laps from 8 due to delays.

[csmutty]

I meant just the race and entry fees for the weekend but all that helps, thank you. With both practice sessions in the AM, would you guess doing one race per day would log you more track time and be cheaper than track days or no?

You can do the math. Racing is never cheaper in terms of track time. That's not what its about. Its about the type of time not the amount. You either want cheap track time at a td or want to race. Can't have both. If you did 2 races and 4 practices that's under and hour and a half of track time for $130.

[nt650hawk]

found my 300cc

[tls25rs]

That bike sounds awesome. So how do you go about getting one Gino?

[Kurlon]

I will be needing some alone time now...

[Kurlon]

So, dunno how but Suzuki's GW250 wasn't included in the rules. Introduced for the 2013 model year it's a liquid cooled 250cc twin ala the Ninja 250, only done up as a nekid bike. It's closer to a 'full size' due to a longer wheelbase and more weight than the other machines in the class so I don't see it running away with the series if allowed in as a Class A machine.

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%...250.aspx#Specs

The other machine I found has sleeper potential, assuming it holds together. The Chinese produced Motrac R11 250.

http://www.motrac.cn/products_detail...099315740.html

300lbs (dry I assume) and 25hp (at the crank, I assume) you get dual 4 piston radial calipers biting 310mm rotors, a rear wheel sporting a 150 tire, and a short wheelbase. It's similar to the RC390 sans the motor... Sporting a 30mm carb so no need for electronics to rejet either.

Final bonus - Looks like they're about $1000 plus shipping. I'm half tempted to get one of these approved as a Class A machine just to see how hard the cheap junket can be pushed.

[CBR929RE]

I bet that Motrac blows up if it ever makes it under 2:00

[Kurlon]

Did a bit more research, it's a newish design out of China for a motor. 4v DOHC head, counter balanced, it's not the normal XL125+bodge upright motors I'm used to seeing come out of china. It's not immediately obvious what motor they based this one on, but it's a big improvement over their push rod air cooled lump. Now, it still could be made from cold forged chinese chocolate too... but it'd be a fun experiment to find out.