Braking technique advice

[xsiliconkid]

Do you not blip the throttle when you use the clutch to down shift?

I am amazed that a lot of folk don't blip on down shifts.....
Maybe that's why slipper clutches have become so popular....

caveat.
Big singles and two stokes are on either end of the "how to down shift" continuum.....

[xsiliconkid]

This has turned into a great thread.

My rear gets very loose on my downshifts in 11. I can't wait to get back out there and work on things.

more fiber in your diet...

[Fitz]

I am amazed that a lot of folk don't blip on down shifts.....
Maybe that's why slipper clutches have become so popular....

caveat.
Big singles and two stokes are on either end of the "how to down shift" continuum.....

Oh I blip regardless of the slipper clutch... it's those "oh $hit" scenario's where I have too much going on that I'll occasionally catch myself missing a blip. The slipper clutch makes this almost seamless though.. I notice I missed the blip by the sound of the motor... not the back end stepping out 2.5 feet.

Fitz

[RyanNicholson]

yea I'm actually amazed at how many people don't blip... I was always under the impression you still should even with a slipper clutch. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I agree with Paul that it can be yet another added worry while in a pretty stressful situation as it is... but once you get used to it you don't even think about it anymore, its just part of the process.

[The Snowman]

with the new t1, there seems be a need to snick one or two down shift's very late...leant over and just before going hard left.

I blip, because I don't have a slipper.

Oh I blip regardless of the slipper clutch... it's those "oh $hit" scenario's where I have too much going on that I'll occasionally catch myself missing a blip. The slipper clutch makes this almost seamless though.. I notice I missed the blip by the sound of the motor... not the back end stepping out 2.5 feet.
Fitz

I wish they were a little less expensive. I just can't justify paying 1/3 of the price I paid for the whole bike on one part.

[Fitz]

I wish they were a little less expensive. I just can't justify paying 1/3 of the price I paid for the whole bike on one part.

Agreed however the way I looked at it I got a screaming deal on the SV in the first place so that 33% was a tad high based on percentage alone. Using that same math, a rear shock is 33% of the initial purchase price, new springs, seals, and oil are ~20%, etc.... Maybe it's better off to look at it in the terms of improved time. If 1.30 on an SV is slow and 1.15 is stupid fast, would the purchase of a slipper help you get from 1.30 to 1.25? That's a 33% decrease in times.

Fitz

[OreoGaborio]

would the purchase of a slipper help you get from 1.30 to 1.25?

Haha, I'm sure you don't think that it would, but the answer to that question would be - Aaaabsolutely not!
But if it did, it would be worth every penny, that's for sure. That'd be 4 tenths of a second per corner !

[Fitz]

Haha, I know you probably won't think that it will, but the answer to that question would be

Aaaabsolutely not! There's no way a slipper would net you almost 4 tenths of a second per corner. But if it did, it would be worth every penny, that's for sure!

It's a piece of safety equipment...... allright allright.. yeah.. that's a stretch...

[Kurlon]

I don't blip the throttle, but I'm getting much better about leaving it cracked on downshifts which seems to make a world of difference, especially on my ST3 which has buckets of engine braking capacity.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

It's a piece of safety equipment...... allright allright.. yeah.. that's a stretch...

The same can be said for the SV's awesome engine braking.


and thats free

[The Snowman]

Using that same math, a rear shock is 33% of the initial purchase price, new springs, seals, and oil are ~20%, etc....

Those were all part of the purchase price. Thanks Dan!

The same can be said for the SV's awesome engine braking.

and thats free

I'll definitely agree with that. Just a blip will do ya.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.77 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I'm with paul and ken. I'm Not a blipper. Yes I do have a slipper clutch but I can't bring myself to use it much yet. I'm so used to tryhing to match engine and road speed with gearing that I find it hard to say "screw it! I'll just bang it down 2 or 3 gears". Just doesn't come easy for me.to abuse the tranny like that.

[BMFR6]

well, just a question to add to the topic, does it seem as though people rely too much on engine braking and could this hurt their lap times? i feel that when i raced i tried as much as possible to depend on my brakes before engine braking, i felt that using the brakes to control my speed was quicker and easier mentally than dealing with engine braking and i would work to minimize it. fanning the clutch IMO is less predictable than just using the brakes. again, just bringing up new viewpoints.

[TTD]

I used to blip, then I got the TZ250 (two stroke) and stopped blipping.

When I went back to the CBR600, I didn't blip... and don't feel the need any more.

If your back gets squiggly in 11, or any corner, you're probably letting the clutch out too fast.

My hand actually slipped from the clutch in 11 last year and the back tire locked up a sec... definitely crappy feeling.

[The Snowman]

Wow, I never knew so many didn't blip to match speed. Is it that hard to learn? Do those who don't blip on the track do the same on the street? (that is, if you do ride on the street anymore)

edit, I guess I have a lot to learn about feathering the clutch when I let it out.

[TTD]

regardless of whether or not you blip, you should 'feed' out the clutch after a downshift... sometimes very fast, but still a "feed out"

Downshifting at a high rpm is the main time you have to worrry about blipping and feeding. On the street, I rarely do this.

[Chippertheripper]

I try and "flow" alot more if I'm on the street. More engine braking, less actual brakes. 3rd gear in the twists on the streets most times. Works very well on my "big heavy slow bike". And it keeps me a little more honest.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.77 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

well, just a question to add to the topic, does it seem as though people rely too much on engine braking and could this hurt their lap times? i feel that when i raced i tried as much as possible to depend on my brakes before engine braking, i felt that using the brakes to control my speed was quicker and easier mentally than dealing with engine braking and i would work to minimize it. fanning the clutch IMO is less predictable than just using the brakes. again, just bringing up new viewpoints.

If you are engine braking you are wasting time for sure. On the brakes or on the gas at all times. Your throttle should not ever be closed for more than a split second.

[Awesome]

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If you are engine braking you are wasting time for sure. On the brakes or on the gas at all times. Your throttle should not ever be closed for more than a split second.

A saying I've heard is, brake pads are way cheaper than engines.

I'm sure a lot of people that never touch the rear brake, or go on and on about not using it often use the engine as a brake.

[xsiliconkid]

there is no doubt on the track with experience blippng gets less - as you down shift later and at the point the revs match..... that and feeding the clutch out...

the odd occasions you miss count or jump on a different bike and just bang it down with the rear then doing the La Macarena gets interesting

[TTD]

I'm sure a lot of people that never touch the rear brake, or go on and on about not using it often use the engine as a brake.

While I never touch the rear brake on the track, I absolutely agree that engine braking is critical.

This is obvious when hitting a false neutral while downshifting. You let the clutch out and don't feel that comfort of engine drag... and you freak out... at least I do.

[butcher bergs]

I rev match all day long. No issues over here so far..........well, that is until you realize your gearbox is definitely broken when it finds a false neutral going into T1.

Piss shivers.

[Paul_E_D]

The bottom line for me is that I cannot MAXIMUM brake, meaning at or near the traction threshold, while twisting the throttle. I tried the blipping thing for a while, but it always introduced just a little unwanted input on the brake lever. As I started braking more aggressively, I just gave up trying to blip. Locking up the front on dry pavement at 90 mph heading for a wall is not my idea of fun. I learned to time my shifts instead.

[OreoGaborio]

It's tough to regulate brake pressure when blipping.

[The Snowman]

All this to blip or not to blip talk makes me feel like I really need to start learning to ride from scratch all over again, since I thought blipping was normal.

Now I'm really confused.