Braking technique advice

[bdawkins20]

Yes I did do the mod to the sv. I was a little skeptical at first but it for sure shortend the twist and is a neat little mod and it did help with the shifting.

I guess maybe I just need to get used to riding a twin and its tendencies.... I have been riding in line 4s since I was 16. When I first started racing I did a track day with Keith code on a 636 and was routinely in the 1:27s and a best of 1:25 for lap times. When I bought an sv I did a best of 1:37 and in 2 years of racing, I am down to 1:27s. For whatever reason with the sv I find it to be more trouble braking and blipping and shifiting... very frustrating. On bill tanseys advice I will have to practice in a empty parking lot with the sv.....

[The Snowman]

Yes I did do the mod to the sv. I was a little skeptical at first but it for sure shortend the twist and is a neat little mod and it did help with the shifting.

I guess maybe I just need to get used to riding a twin and its tendencies.... I have been riding in line 4s since I was 16. When I first started racing I did a track day with Keith code on a 636 and was routinely in the 1:27s and a best of 1:25 for lap times. When I bought an sv I did a best of 1:37 and in 2 years of racing, I am down to 1:27s. For whatever reason with the sv I find it to be more trouble braking and blipping and shifiting... very frustrating. On bill tanseys advice I will have to practice in a empty parking lot with the sv.....

I find it more difficult to find the right exit gear on my SV. Like you, I have always had I-4 bikes. I may mess with chaing the rear sprocket to one with one more tooth to see if that helps at all.

I don't think I ever got the bike into 6th on the front straight. I bounced off the rev limiter in 5th quite a few time. (no speedo on the bike, just a tach)

[Fitz]

What are you running for gearing? Redline in 5th with stock gearing on an SV is moving along pretty good.

Fitz

[OreoGaborio]

fwiw, I'm at 15/46 and it's done me well so far.
It was a little tricky finding the PERFECT combo of up & downshifts at first, but as I got faster it started making more sense.

[Fitz]

fwiw, I'm at 15/46 and it's done me well so far.
It was a little tricky finding the PERFECT combo of up & downshifts at first, but as I got faster it started making more sense.

I'm hoping to try the 15/46 combo this year. Needed to get sprockets for the F3 rim and ordered both a 45 and a 46.

Fitz

[butcher bergs]

I'm not sure how some of you perform(ed) your rev-matching but there is a way to rev-match without adding unwanted pressure to the brake lever.

[BMFR6]

What I did was move the brake lever a 1/4 of an inch up and i was able to turn my wrist more on the blip.
Still not 100% but again it was an improvement.

he brings up a good point. getting your levers to a comfortable spot can really help. theres a reason you see 1000 pictures of the gp and wsbk guys just sitting on their bikes in the garage. making your bike more comfortable to use can really help.

[The Snowman]

What are you running for gearing? Redline in 5th with stock gearing on an SV is moving along pretty good.

Fitz

I'll have to get back to you on this one. I'd have to dig it out of the far end of my garage to find out. The right side of the bike is up against the wall and buried in by the 900RR and other stuff.

If memory serves, I THINK it's 15/45.

[OreoGaborio]

And you're bouncing off the limiter in 5th on the front straight?

[butcher bergs]

Chuck's knocking on 16's!

[The Snowman]

And you're bouncing off the limiter in 5th on the front straight?

Pretty sure I am. And too close to brake marker (at least my brake marker) to bring it up to 6th.

[OreoGaborio]

Hm.... Me thinks you're geared shorter than 15/45. Maybe 16/45?

Go unbury it!

[The Snowman]

Hm.... Me thinks you're geared shorter than 15/45. Maybe 16/45?

Go unbury it!

Ok, maybe I was bouncing off the limiter in 4th. The gearing is 15/44. No wonder it seemed a little sluggish coming out of 6 and 12.

[OreoGaborio]

Ahh... yeah, I don't quite reach my limiter in 5th before my brake marker. Close but not quite.

You can either stick with that gearing & try to make it work, or shorten it up a tooth or two. I don't think a couple of teeth will make a whole lot of difference though, I think it's just a matter of learning your shift points.

I had trouble with my drive out of the bowl for the longest time... I tried forever to carry enough speed through to be up in the power band but it just wasn't working... so I'm grabbing one extra downshift than before and an upshift in front of the grandstands.

[The Snowman]

Ahh... yeah, I don't quite reach my limiter in 5th before my brake marker. Close but not quite.

You can either stick with that gearing & try to make it work, or shorten it up a tooth or two. I don't think a couple of teeth will make a whole lot of difference though, I think it's just a matter of learning your shift points.

I had trouble with my drive out of the bowl for the longest time... I tried forever to carry enough speed through to be up in the power band but it just wasn't working... so I'm grabbing one extra downshift than before and an upshift in front of the grandstands.

You don't think a 44 rear is too tall? I'll never use all that power.

[OreoGaborio]

Hahaha. Well it's a little tall, sure.
If it were me, I'm not sure I'd bother changing it out until it's at the end of it's life though. It could help force you to try & carry more cornerspeed through 6 and 12.

I say wait till it's toast then get a 46.

[xsiliconkid]

All this to blip or not to blip talk makes me feel like I really need to start learning to ride from scratch all over again, since I thought blipping was normal.

Now I'm really confused.

I would not go out and throw the move away...just yet
it is a widely accepted practice in the dirt, on the street, and even racing - but with the advent of slipper clutches and lots and lots of experience...timing down shifts (taking them much later) all work.....
The key is not to have the back wheel break traction.....whatever works for you..

on two strokes this is not really an issue due to very little engine braking - e.g., in the dirt driving into a tight turn whipping though on the berm chopping the throttle does little to upset rear traction....try that on a big 4 stroke single.....

[GixerJockey]

Pretty sure I am. And too close to brake marker (at least my brake marker) to bring it up to 6th.

Pretty sure you're seeing the top of 4th. I'm running the same gearing on the same bike and I don't quite get to the top of 5th before jumping on the brakes for T1.

[TTD]

All this gearing talk makes me miss the TZ250, with the cassette gearbox.

I could slide out the whole transmission, change any particular gear ratio, and put it back in. This lets you really fine tune for a particular track.

Changing the sprockets affects all gears - sometimes making one corner better and another worse.

[Ken C]

You almost can't avoid some amount of engine braking. The question becomes, how much engine braking do you desire? Blipping the throttle OR waiting to release the clutch until you are closer to your entry speed (and with lower RPM) will result in less engine braking force to the rear wheel.

Using too much engine braking can be tough on the machine and does not contribute to lower lap times, but engine braking does stabilize the motorcycle by keeping ("pulling") the rear wheel in line with the front wheel.

And, if you are used to having engine braking do a significant portion of your slowing, then a false neutral when slowing for a fast turn will certainly get your attention. Even if you don't think you rely on engine braking at all, it will be proven that you do to some extent with a false neutral.

[The Snowman]

And, if you are used to having engine braking do a significant portion of your slowing, then a false neutral when slowing for a fast turn will certainly get your attention. Even if you don't think you rely on engine braking at all, it will be proven that you do to some extent with a false neutral.

This is a great point. Thankfully, I'm yet to experience a false neutral on the SV. (I did have a few "wrong way" shifts due to it being set up as GP shift.)

[butcher bergs]

Does anyone know if a turn can generally still be comitted to during a false-neutral situation?

[OreoGaborio]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

Well i've done it... Sorta. I was slow through the turn & ran it wide kinda cuz the chassis wasn't as stable as I would have liked and couldn't get back on the gas till I got it back in gear of course, but I salvaged the corner as much as I could.

[Ken C]

Does anyone know if a turn can generally still be comitted to during a false-neutral situation?

Sure. But, it will require that you make up some of the lost braking force with "actual" braking force (squeeze the brakes harder). The problem is that a full second or so will have lapsed before you realize and can react to the false neutral.

The other problem is that you will have to combat your muscle memory, which is "locked" into being comfortable with a certain amount of brake pressure. A false neutral will require you to squeeze harder than usual, which often results in braking less than you need to.

Also, the margin for error is now narrower, since you have to slow the bike in a shorter amount of time and space before turn-in.

You should be able to throw the bike into the turn after slowing as much as you can. Chances are your bike will be able to handle it.

The next question is "can the rider handle a faster than usual corner speed?"

[The Snowman]

The next question is "can the rider handle a faster than usual corner speed?"

That would probably depend on what the "faster than usual corner speed" is.