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Bring out your dead!

  1. #1
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Bring out your dead!

    Ok, someone asked for a build thread, here ya go. Heckle away!

    Premis - Convert a 1992 WR/YZ 250 chimera into a supermotard

    FAQ:
    - "1992 was a long time ago, why not start with something manufactured this millennium?" Answer - I actually have the perfect all around machine in my garage right now, all I have to do is write the check. Unfortunately that check would be printed on the finest Goodyear rubber, and I'm not going to tease the owner with a payment plan offer or other typical NESR lowball shenanigans. No budget, but I've at least got something that at one time moved under it's own power so that's what I'm starting with.

    - "So, you really think you can be competitive on that badly polished turd?" Answer - Competitive is a relative term, to ask properly you have to mention what you think I'm trying to compete against. This machine is never going to see a podium short of a miracle. That's not the intent. The goal is a B bike that will allow me to circulate under a green flag and collect some points instead of a DNS/DNF should something happen to the A bike. In that way, it's competitive, relative to not going on track. In the mean time, I get to play on a motard again, yay!

    - "It's going to blow up on the first lap, raining fire and brimestone over the entire track. Puppies may be killed as a result of the collateral damage." Answer - That's not a question meathead, but this is a totally foreseeable outcome. I'm dragging a 23+ year old two stroke motocrosser out of the grave and trying to convince it to be a GP machine instead, without a movie montage build and training sequence and a killer theme song banged out on a Casio keyboard the odds of failure are high. Don't care. The bike has pretty much sat since I got back into road racing so even a lap in which it goes boom is more use than it's seen so a win in my book. That said, I am doing my homework and will be jetting/mixing appropriately, the motor is pretty fresh despite the external appearances.

    - "Do you EVER do things the normal way?!" Answer - Yes, I like my steak medium rare and as long as it's a good cut it doesn't need anything beyond a little salt and pepper before being served.

    - "Is this a dumb idea?" Answer - Absolutely.

    - "Couldn't you just buy a ready to go machine for less?" Answer - No, not without the new whip having some fatal, expensive to correct flaw at least. I'm gaming the system a little in that I've got a line on some of the bits at a good price, a good chunk of the bits used will also be directly usable on modern Yamahas giving me a means of bailing while reducing my losses or moving up to a newer unit without having to rebuild totally from scratch.

    - "Wheels man, what about the wheels, man?" Answer - Sorted already. See the above question, they're part of that equation. 17 x 3.5 up front, 17 x 4.25 in back. Not the perfect setup for racing, but easy to live with and again, not aiming for this to be the king of the mountain, just able to look the part under a green flag.

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    Last edited by Kurlon; 03-27-15 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Have you seen my baseball GingahNinjah's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    I cant wait to see this pile in a few weeks lol

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    https://www.facebook.com/LRRSBT1R #54 EX 2007 SV650 "Work hard. Play harder. Die broke and happy!" Boston Tier 1 Racing Pirelli Tires Woodcraft-CFM Armorbodies Penguin Racing School Vortex Shorai Batteries DP Brakes Riders Discount SIDI Leatt

  3. #3
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    No way it makes the first round short of a miracle.

    In fact, there's no guarantee the 'A' bike will make the first round, short of a miracle. Still waiting on some parts...

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  4. #4
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    I never do things the normal way, either.


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  5. #5
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    I am extremely confident I've found the right garage to make me look normal in comparison.
    This is gonna be awesome.

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    99 + 02 SV650 ex-race - 91 FJ1200 street - 03 KDX220R woods - 12 WR450F motard/ice

  6. #6
    Have you seen my baseball GingahNinjah's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Doug glad to see you making a comeback this year!!

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    https://www.facebook.com/LRRSBT1R #54 EX 2007 SV650 "Work hard. Play harder. Die broke and happy!" Boston Tier 1 Racing Pirelli Tires Woodcraft-CFM Armorbodies Penguin Racing School Vortex Shorai Batteries DP Brakes Riders Discount SIDI Leatt

  7. #7

    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Josh I love you more n more every day

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  8. #8

    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Yeahhhh I dunno...the mid 90's smokers sort of suck as a true motard...

    Plus from a cost standpoint, rims and tires are a far too expensive...but I. Guessing you have a solution?

    Also I can't say for sure, but a 2 smoke crank won't last long on high speed pavement...and that's an expensive/pita swap (has it been swapped yet or still 2 decades old?)

    Great fun on a sumo track and hooligan bike on street but isn't louden too big for how that bike is geared?

    So all these things can likely be remedied, but you can buy one like Mark's off the bat for that money

    Edit # 17: okay, now I am talking myself into it. The geometry of the bike doesn't seem right for street...suspension obviously plays a big roll, so it that sorts it for you, and does it on a budget, I might follow suit. I am already going to have a couple sets of suspension for my bike

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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 03-25-15 at 02:57 PM.
    FREE $10 UBER CREDIT W' PROMO CODE --> PON41
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  9. #9
    Lifer Ductard's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Ok, someone asked for a build thread, here ya go. Heckle away!

    Premis - Convert a 1992 WR/YZ 250 chimera into a supermotard

    FAQ:
    - "1992 was a long time ago, why not start with something manufactured this millennium?" Answer - I actually have the perfect all around machine in my garage right now, all I have to do is write the check. Unfortunately that check would be printed on the finest Goodyear rubber, and I'm not going to tease the owner with a payment plan offer or other typical NESR lowball shenanigans. No budget, but I've at least got something that at one time moved under it's own power so that's what I'm starting with.

    - "So, you really think you can be competitive on that badly polished turd?" Answer - Competitive is a relative term, to ask properly you have to mention what you think I'm trying to compete against. This machine is never going to see a podium short of a miracle. That's not the intent. The goal is a B bike that will allow me to circulate under a green flag and collect some points instead of a DNS/DNF should something happen to the A bike. In that way, it's competitive, relative to not going on track. In the mean time, I get to play on a motard again, yay!

    - "It's going to blow up on the first lap, raining fire and brimestone over the entire track. Puppies may be killed as a result of the collateral damage." Answer - That's not a question meathead, but this is a totally foreseeable outcome. I'm dragging a 23+ year old two stroke motocrosser out of the grave and trying to convince it to be a GP machine instead, without a movie montage build and training sequence and a killer theme song banged out on a Casio keyboard the odds of failure are high. Don't care. The bike has pretty much sat since I got back into road racing so even a lap in which it goes boom is more use than it's seen so a win in my book. That said, I am doing my homework and will be jetting/mixing appropriately, the motor is pretty fresh despite the external appearances.

    - "Do you EVER do things the normal way?!" Answer - Yes, I like my steak medium rare and as long as it's a good cut it doesn't need anything beyond a little salt and pepper before being served.
    Pics?

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    "Where are we going?...and why am I in this handbasket?"
    LRRS 919
    '12 Ducati 1199 Panigale (track) '08 Honda CRF 250 (ice) '02 KTM 520 SX Supermoto (track)

  10. #10
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Rims - I wouldn't be investigating this if I didn't have a plan for this portion of the program. Tires? I road race, I just close my eyes and hope my CC doesn't catch on fire when ever I talk to the tire salesman. Gots to have da rubber, yo!

    Crank - It's a pressed together crank, just like on a KTM, Honda, etc, so I do expect it to get pissy after some time. Dunno what that lifespan is, but I've got an hour meter so we'll have an answer soon enough. Good news is, a brand new OEM complete crank is approx $300. A swap takes less time than on one of my pitbike motors. Generally speaking figure a crank / top end per year isn't really breaking the bank as far as operating costs but I doubt I'll be running that hard. The real crime is if the bad thing happens and the cases are damaged. MSRP on those bad boys is $1600 for a set. Worth more than the bike, worth more than the wheels, worth more the carb. There will be a funeral, I'll cry.

    My machine is also based on the WR bottom end so it's got a wide ratio gearbox that will let me gear for the front straight and still not have to feather the clutch like a RS125 to get off the line. I can actually gear it tall enough that it won't be able to pull 5th if I want to get silly.

    Cost - As noted in the FAQ, I've got no budget. And by no budget I don't mean I'll make it rain to make this happen. I mean when I open my wallet alert klaxons go off and my wife stares at me, angrily. Even worse, after all that pomp and show, no actual money appears to justify the performance. I'm shoe-stringing this together a piece at a time, which means it'll cost more in the end but because the lump sum doesn't show up in the register at once no alarms go off.

    Who is Mark, what is he selling, for how much, and why is it on a bat?

    Edit: Updated the FAQ, thank you for triggering the first addition.

    Pics? Pics!
    Bring out your dead!-10536647_458023311005356_2975626331807247061_o-jpg
    Bring out your dead!-photo-1-jpg

    Obviously this is a done deal, I have stickers!
    Bring out your dead!-photo-2-jpg
    Bring out your dead!-photo-3-jpg

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    Last edited by Kurlon; 03-25-15 at 03:32 PM.

  11. #11

    Re: Bring out your dead!

    what bout the rest of the bike?

    r&r the bearings?

    brakes?!?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    FREE $10 UBER CREDIT W' PROMO CODE --> PON41
    1994 Yamaha YZ250 CA Street Legal 2-smoke :smoke:

  12. #12
    Lifer Ductard's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    MSRP on those bad boys is $1600 for a set. Worth more than the bike, worth more than the wheels, worth more the carb. There will be a funeral, I'll cry.
    If that day comes, I'd check Ebay before you shed too many tears.

    Yamaha YZ250 Right Engine Clutch Cover Case WR250 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 | eBay

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    "Where are we going?...and why am I in this handbasket?"
    LRRS 919
    '12 Ducati 1199 Panigale (track) '08 Honda CRF 250 (ice) '02 KTM 520 SX Supermoto (track)

  13. #13
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Brakes - 108mm bolt spacing radial caliper adapter means I can use a caliper from just about any modern sport bike. I'm partial to Yamaha stuff just for brand uniformity. I have one person I'll go to first once this stage of the game is hit, master will be a used sport bike unit as well. For the rotor, there are some relatively cheap options out there so it'll likely get new. In back, it has brakes back there?!

    Bearings - New wheels and front end will instantly cover a good chunk of the bearings, leaving the swingarm and linkage to address. I've replaced those once, the cost isn't crazy to just replace them again if a repack isn't good enough.

    Front End - I said that, didn't I? Goal is to use 2008 or newer YZ/YZF forks in modern clamps to try and start with a somewhat safe baseline geometry. I'm making some GIANT assumptions regarding rake and fork length between my ye-olde crusty mess and modern machines but so far what little info I can find online implies that I'm not that far off the mark.

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    Last edited by Kurlon; 03-27-15 at 07:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Lifer Ductard's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    I have one person I'll go to first once this stage of the game is hit, master will be a used sport bike unit as well.
    Here's a crazy thought....lemme know if this helps:

    I have a KTM SMR brake master, but the lever is broken - and they're fairly expensive.

    If you can MIG weld then you might be able to fix up a lever from the stub (that's how Tricky Mike made the "custom shorty" lever that I broke).

    I could probably just give you the MC. It's a good MC, but if anything happens to my current setup I'll probably just buy a different MC rather than buy an $80 OEM lever.

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    "Where are we going?...and why am I in this handbasket?"
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    '12 Ducati 1199 Panigale (track) '08 Honda CRF 250 (ice) '02 KTM 520 SX Supermoto (track)

  15. #15
    Rookie Rada's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Are you aware that Noleen racing offered a really nice 360cc kit for that engine?
    Tig welding your crank will be time well spent.

    Nice thing with Yamaha cranks unlike Honda cranks are that you can rebuild them. Easy.

    Going to want to raise the top of the exhaust port a scoshe to gain some top end over run. There is a very remote chance I can get my hands on some very very very good porting specs for that cylinder.

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  16. #16
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    I can't weld, but I'd be up for spending on a lever if that's all it took to revive it. If I get that far along, we can chat!

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  17. #17
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    I've seen both the Noleen and Ohlins 360 kits, gorgeous stuff and the occasionally still pop up on ebay! Currently it's sporting an Eric Gorr ported 265 setup. I've got two heads, one cut for pump gas, one cut for high test as well. That's getting ahead of myself though, at the moment the goal is reliable B bike to circulate and collect points... no need to chase the motor... yet...

    big ... bore ...

    stroker crank, stuff the cases...

    If you need me, I'll be in my bunk.

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  18. #18

    Re: Bring out your dead!

    hmm...I didn't know that about the calipers...and I'm still interested to see how WR gearing helps for a track situation - even with a wider spread, I still think the top speed is going to be relatively low with 1st gear being too short (I almost think a YZ 1st/2nd gear will give you that rocket shot vs. shifting 3 times to get to 20mph)

    mo' pics:




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    Last edited by breakdirt916; 03-25-15 at 04:24 PM.
    FREE $10 UBER CREDIT W' PROMO CODE --> PON41
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  19. #19
    Lifer Ductard's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by breakdirt916 View Post
    ..and I'm still interested to see how WR gearing helps for a track situation - even with a wider spread, I still think the top speed is going to be relatively low with 1st gear being too short
    I must be missing something here...I'm oversimplifying but if top speed is too low and first is too short, isn't is as simple as adding some teeth to the front sprocket and/or dropping some from the rear?

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    "Where are we going?...and why am I in this handbasket?"
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    '12 Ducati 1199 Panigale (track) '08 Honda CRF 250 (ice) '02 KTM 520 SX Supermoto (track)

  20. #20
    Rookie Rada's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Top speed may be an issue to some extent. It is pretty feasible to gear that bike for a 80-90 MPH top end and still get off turns.

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  21. #21
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Looking at Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator, pretending I've got a Bridgestone 165 rear slick on a proper rim and my current 13/51 gearing, 9k RPM limit. (No idea what is reasonable for this motor. For added fun, YZ250 transmission numbers in red.)

    1st - 26.3 mph 29.1mph
    2nd - 35.2 mph
    3rd - 45 mph
    4th - 57.2 mph
    5th - 71.5 mph 60.1mph

    Going to 15 / 48:
    1st - 32.2 mph 35.6mph
    2nd - 43.2 mph
    3rd - 55.2 mph
    4th - 70.1 mph
    5th - 87.6 mph 73.6mph

    A 38 tooth rear brings it up to 110mph on top, 40mph in 1st. Sprocket Specialists lists 37 and up in the rear, and up to 17 in the front although I don't see how that'd fit. 15 / 37 nets 95.5mph with the YZ transmission.

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    Last edited by Kurlon; 03-25-15 at 05:44 PM.

  22. #22

    Re: Bring out your dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ductard View Post
    I must be missing something here...I'm oversimplifying but if top speed is too low and first is too short, isn't is as simple as adding some teeth to the front sprocket and/or dropping some from the rear?
    I typed on phone - let me try again

    I was unsure about the gearing - top speeds on dirt bikes are around 70-80mph (I've been next to a bike "indicated" at 80mph...but that might be 10% fast, so I know the bike can do low 70's)

    the first gear on a wide ratio is supposed to be top out at a lower speed vs. the close ratio on the YZ - so I was suggesting that the first couple gears on the WR might be too short on a "bigger" track

    but looking @ the numbers posted - it doesn't look that much different...a 3mph difference w' 15/48 is not a big deal

    still skeptical...the whole thing feels like a wet noodle at 60mph++...so I'm curious to see how the newer suspension might remedy that

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  23. #23
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    If the wet noodle is from the frame flexing, newer, stiffer suspension will make the issue worse. If you're feeling a wag due to incorrect trail for the speed, that hopefully will be reduced by the setup I'm aiming for.

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  24. #24

  25. #25
    Lifer
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    Re: Bring out your dead!

    You're nucking futz. I love it.
    This has to be the coolest club in the land. I just can't imagine it getting any better.

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