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CCS Rule Updates for 2008

  1. #26
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Well obviously it doesnt matter to me in the least, but I can see how it would matter to some of the fast guys going for wins. Especially now that they announced you cant pre-reg at the banquet for the year. And the fact that Ive heard it brought up at riders meetings a number of times with a good amount of applause shows that a lot of riders support it. And yes, the fast guys will get to the front, but assuming they cant get it done immediately for whatever reason, they have to get by 5 or 6 bikes whereas the competitors dont? I mean the times are fairly close enough that if Guy A gets a 4-5 second lead, Guy B will have no chance to catch them. I assume the Greenwoods and Narbones and Woods will be preregging the second they get home from the track on sundays now for the next weekend, if is the case are people with longer drives being punished?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  2. #27
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Don't worry, you can always pre-reg online. That's coming. And soon.

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    2021 KTM Duke 890 R
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  3. #28
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    About 5 years ago I hear

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    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  4. #29
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittenger5 View Post
    Well obviously it doesnt matter to me in the least, but I can see how it would matter to some of the fast guys going for wins. Especially now that they announced you cant pre-reg at the banquet for the year. And the fact that Ive heard it brought up at riders meetings a number of times with a good amount of applause shows that a lot of riders support it. And yes, the fast guys will get to the front, but assuming they cant get it done immediately for whatever reason, they have to get by 5 or 6 bikes whereas the competitors dont? I mean the times are fairly close enough that if Guy A gets a 4-5 second lead, Guy B will have no chance to catch them. I assume the Greenwoods and Narbones and Woods will be preregging the second they get home from the track on sundays now for the next weekend, if is the case are people with longer drives being punished?
    Not speaking for shane or scott, but I have never seen either of the wood brothers standing in line at reg. They walk right through the door on the left. What makes you think they need to pre-reg at all?

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  5. #30
    Lifer Pittenger5's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that they all just registered at the banquet and they could pre-reg all year. I assume when its them they can just walk in the door and do the paperwork for themselves. I could be wrong, and Im not defending any stance Im sure they have great reasons, I just havent heard what they are and was curious what they might be

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    Zip Tie Alley #505

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  6. #31
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    And I had just decided to keep the hawk. Fuck this. The hawk seem pretty worthless as a race machine now. Thanks CCS!

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    One of the former LRRS #13's

    http://www.facebook.com/ChrisWatt762

    JT42

  7. #32
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    how about our rider rep weigh in on this... or better yet, voice the concerns to mr. wood?

    ...of course until ccs publishes its rulebook it'll all be a mystery, but if what is suggested is true i hope LRRS realizes that we don't need another SV class.

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  8. #33
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Email Eric!

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  9. #34
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    SENT

    Hi, I'm Chris Watt. I'm expert racer #762, and I race with the LRRS. I recently saw that the CCS is apparently now allowing all watercooled 650cc twins into the Ultralight superbike class. I currently race a 1988 Honda NT650GT Hawk that I love, and I won the Amateur ULSB national championship on it this season. It makes 49 Horsepower.

    I've attempted to run it in the lightweight classes(LWSB and LWGP), and proceeded to get left in the dust on all the straights I come up to. At Loudon! ULSB is the only class the Hawk is seriously competitive in, and allowing SV 650's and EX 650's into it is going to kill just about any chance the hawk has of winning again.

    The hawk has a very strong following up at Loudon, and I'm sure at other tracks as well. I've spoken to most, if not all of the other hawk racers in the LRRS about this. They all agree that this rule change makes it very difficult to continue racing the hawk.

    A well built hawk will put out about 70hp. Compare that to a well built SV650 that puts down close to 100hp. This will be a slaughter. New 650cc twins have many classes they can be competitive in. ULSB has aircooled 800's, motards, 250cc two strokes and hawks. 650cc twins will lay waste to all of us. I hate to sound like a baby, but this is unfair.

    Please reconsider this rule change!

    Thank you for your time,
    Chris Watt
    CCS/LRRS EX#762

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    One of the former LRRS #13's

    http://www.facebook.com/ChrisWatt762

    JT42

  10. #35
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    what's his email addy? all ULSB racers should send an email similar to chris's

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    Scott
    1990 Honda Hawk NT700 (rebuilt?)
    2012 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (retarded fun)

  11. #36
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Eric.Kelcher@ccsracing.us according to Doc. I hope he's right.

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    One of the former LRRS #13's

    http://www.facebook.com/ChrisWatt762

    JT42

  12. #37
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    oh. you said eric and i thought you meant wood i'll email this guy.

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    Scott
    1990 Honda Hawk NT700 (rebuilt?)
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  13. #38
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    another in his inbox. doc you better have that address correct

    Dear Eric,

    In reviewing the 2008 rule change request determinations as posted on
    the CCS website it would appear that SV650s and Ninja 650s will be
    allowed to race in Ultralight Superbike. I sincerely hope this is not
    the case.

    Prior to this there was a rule disallowing liquid cooled twins that
    were made in 1999 or newer. This kept a level playing field for those
    of us racing in the class on older, or less-common machinery.

    I personally race a 1990 Honda NT650 Hawk who's motor has been bored
    out to 700cc, even after significant engine modifications I still only
    have about 73hp at my rear tire. This is equivalent to the horsepower
    in a SV650 or Ninja 650 as sold by the manufacturer. As you can
    imagine a Superbike spec SV or Ninja will easily put out over 90
    horsepower. I have the luxury of racing at Loudon, which is a very
    tight track, one that emphasizes the rider's ability over horsepower,
    however even at this track a Superbike spec Hawk is no match for a
    Superbike spec SV.

    I would ask that you please reconsider the rules change and continue
    to disallow liquid cooled twin-cylinder motorcycles made in or after
    1999. Ultralight Superbike is the only class motorcycles such as Hawks
    and FZRs can still race competitively. All other lightweight classes
    are already dominated by SV650s. I fail to see why allowing them to
    race in Ultralight Superbike would result in anything other than more
    unique motorcycles becoming uncompetitive and SVs dominating even more
    races.

    In short new 650cc twin-cylinder motorcycles already have their own
    class, the lightweight class, in both Supersport and Superbike
    specifications. We (Hawks, FZRs, older Ducatis, etc) do not. This will
    eliminate the 1 race a weekend we can realistically be competitive in.

    I hope that you reconsider the rules change.

    Thank you for your time,
    Scott Ferguson
    CCS/LRRS AM #824

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    Scott
    1990 Honda Hawk NT700 (rebuilt?)
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  14. #39
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    (draft)

    My Name is Daniel Carr I have been involved with
    racing in CCS for 2 years now and I love every second
    of it. However, I am a little concerned about the
    propose rule change to allow newer Post 1999 Liquid
    cooled twins into ultra-light superbike. Ultra-light
    superbike is my focus event I race a honda Hawk GT My
    bike makes approx. 50 Hp on a good day (the amateur
    ultra-light superbike champion this year Bike was
    dyoed at Daytona and made 49 Hp to the wheels).
    Ultra-weight superbike is the class as it stands as a
    haven for oddball ball bikes such as Hawks, FZR400's
    Honda CB1's and non GP spec 2 Stoke 250 Road bikes.
    You will find in the pits that the people who race
    these these so called oddball machines are some of the
    most involved and dedicated racers who take pride in
    being part of the racing community. By allowing
    theses post 99 Twins i.e. (SV650's and ex650's) in the
    class who are essentially eliminating all these
    oddball bikes from competion, to wait around until the
    Vintage community welcomes us. or move to WERA or
    other racing organizations.

    At Loudon my home track The lightweight class is
    dominated by SV650'S who are very competitive against
    the bigger ducati's We have almost no buells and I
    have never seen a BMW on the track (except with a
    sidecar attached at the classic weekend).

    The below Dyno sheet were prepared by JD hord a former
    AMA pro Champion in the twins class and is widely
    respected as the foremost authority on Both Hawks and
    SV's

    Stock and lightly modified HAWK

    http://www.hordpower.com/gallery/album06/hawkairbox

    Stock and slightly Modified SV650

    http://www.hordpower.com/gallery/album08/03sv650

    As you can see The power difference is tremendous. as
    well as the hawk being 20 years old this year. VS a
    newer bike.

    Contrary to the CCS bulletin. It is my understanding
    that A Honda Hawk can not safely be modified to 800CC
    with out spending a ton of money and it most likely
    will not last a few races. There is only so much power
    you can safely get out of a three valve head thats
    design is nearly 30 years old (Honda ascot)

    Please also consider that there is not an Ultra-light
    Super-sport class so many bikes in ultra-light
    Superbike races are close to Bone stock without any
    power modifications, so there will be 50 horsepower
    CB-1's GS500's-Hawks sharing the track with
    95+Horrsepower SV650 Superbikes in competition is
    kinda of scary. At loudon the Lightwieght class is a
    big class second only to the middleweight classes.
    that is alot of fast bikes.

    The same bikes do share the track in the GTL race. The
    GTL race is always red-flagged and very rarely runs
    its full distance.

    Lastly, As a member of the CCS racing community I ask
    you not to expand the Ultra-light Class to include the
    The far more powerful and advanced SV's and EX650's
    Those bikes are true lightweights not Ultra-lights.
    and would certainly banish some of us from
    competition

    Sincerely,

    Daniel Carr
    CCS/LRRS # 441

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    Signature edit by Tricky mike

  15. #40
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Gino.....im coming for you

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
    01 SV650S (RC51 eater)/07 690SM /03 300EXC/14 XTZ1200
    TRACKS:Firebird/NHMS/VIR/Calabogie/California Speedway/NJMP/MMC/NYST/Palmer/Thompson/Club Motorsports

  16. #41
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    nicely put, but unless you've got stock pistons in that thing there's no way you have 50hp

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    Scott
    1990 Honda Hawk NT700 (rebuilt?)
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  17. #42
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose441 View Post
    (draft)

    My Name is Daniel Carr I have been involved with
    racing in CCS for 2 years now and I love every second
    of it. However, I am a little concerned about the
    propose rule change to allow newer Post 1999 Liquid
    cooled twins into ultra-light superbike. Ultra-light
    superbike is my focus event I race a honda Hawk GT My
    bike makes approx. 50 Hp on a good day (the amateur
    ultra-light superbike champion this year Bike was
    dyoed at Daytona and made 49 Hp to the wheels).
    Ultra-weight superbike is the class as it stands as a
    haven for oddball ball bikes such as Hawks, FZR400's
    Honda CB1's and non GP spec 2 Stoke 250 Road bikes.
    You will find in the pits that the people who race
    these these so called oddball machines are some of the
    most involved and dedicated racers who take pride in
    being part of the racing community. By allowing
    theses post 99 Twins i.e. (SV650's and ex650's) in the
    class who are essentially eliminating all these
    oddball bikes from competion, to wait around until the
    Vintage community welcomes us. or move to WERA or
    other racing organizations.

    At Loudon my home track The lightweight class is
    dominated by SV650'S who are very competitive against
    the bigger ducati's We have almost no buells and I
    have never seen a BMW on the track (except with a
    sidecar attached at the classic weekend).

    The below Dyno sheet were prepared by JD hord a former
    AMA pro Champion in the twins class and is widely
    respected as the foremost authority on Both Hawks and
    SV's

    Stock and lightly modified HAWK

    Hordpower :: Honda Hawk GT :: hawkairbox

    Stock and slightly Modified SV650

    Hordpower :: Suzuki SV650, SV1000, and TL1000R :: 03sv650

    As you can see The power difference is tremendous. as
    well as the hawk being 20 years old this year. VS a
    newer bike.

    Contrary to the CCS bulletin. It is my understanding
    that A Honda Hawk can not safely be modified to 800CC
    with out spending a ton of money and it most likely
    will not last a few races. There is only so much power
    you can safely get out of a three valve head thats
    design is nearly 30 years old (Honda ascot)

    Please also consider that there is not an Ultra-light
    Super-sport class so many bikes in ultra-light
    Superbike races are close to Bone stock without any
    power modifications, so there will be 50 horsepower
    CB-1's GS500's-Hawks sharing the track with
    95+Horrsepower SV650 Superbikes in competition is
    kinda of scary. At loudon the Lightwieght class is a
    big class second only to the middleweight classes.
    that is alot of fast bikes.

    The same bikes do share the track in the GTL race. The
    GTL race is always red-flagged and very rarely runs
    its full distance.

    Lastly, As a member of the CCS racing community I ask
    you not to expand the Ultra-light Class to include the
    The far more powerful and advanced SV's and EX650's
    Those bikes are true lightweights not Ultra-lights.
    and would certainly banish some of us from
    competition

    Sincerely,

    Daniel Carr
    CCS/LRRS # 441
    you know. i like the hawk..i really do. enough in fact that i bought an SV. i realize that getting a hawk can be less expensive than an SV but really they are about the same. with all the $$ spent to keep these hawks alive and trying to make them handle you could have bought an SV. i understand your concern about having the Svs in UL but it evolution. there was a time when air cooled 750cc I-4 were heavyweight or superbikes....what are they now? ULSB. the rules have to change eventually

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
    01 SV650S (RC51 eater)/07 690SM /03 300EXC/14 XTZ1200
    TRACKS:Firebird/NHMS/VIR/Calabogie/California Speedway/NJMP/MMC/NYST/Palmer/Thompson/Club Motorsports

  18. #43
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Wait, so my GS500 has(had) a chance in ULSS?

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  19. #44
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupidhawk007 View Post
    SENT

    Hi, I'm Chris Watt. I'm expert racer #762, and I race with the LRRS. I recently saw that the CCS is apparently now allowing all watercooled 650cc twins into the Ultralight superbike class. I currently race a 1988 Honda NT650GT Hawk that I love, and I won the Amateur ULSB national championship on it this season. It makes 49 Horsepower.

    I've attempted to run it in the lightweight classes(LWSB and LWGP), and proceeded to get left in the dust on all the straights I come up to. At Loudon! ULSB is the only class the Hawk is seriously competitive in, and allowing SV 650's and EX 650's into it is going to kill just about any chance the hawk has of winning again.

    The hawk has a very strong following up at Loudon, and I'm sure at other tracks as well. I've spoken to most, if not all of the other hawk racers in the LRRS about this. They all agree that this rule change makes it very difficult to continue racing the hawk.

    A well built hawk will put out about 70hp. Compare that to a well built SV650 that puts down close to 100hp. This will be a slaughter. New 650cc twins have many classes they can be competitive in. ULSB has aircooled 800's, motards, 250cc two strokes and hawks. 650cc twins will lay waste to all of us. I hate to sound like a baby, but this is unfair.

    Please reconsider this rule change!

    Thank you for your time,
    Chris Watt
    CCS/LRRS EX#762
    LOL, Eric Wood has nothing to do with running LRRS or CCS.

    You probably want to be emailing Don or Jerry.

    derek

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  20. #45
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    you know. i like the hawk..i really do. enough in fact that i bought an SV. i realize that getting a hawk can be less expensive than an SV but really they are about the same. with all the $$ spent to keep these hawks alive and trying to make them handle you could have bought an SV. i understand your concern about having the Svs in UL but it evolution. there was a time when air cooled 750cc I-4 were heavyweight or superbikes....what are they now? ULSB. the rules have to change eventually
    Its not just the Hawks, The FZR's and the other bikes are gonna get screwed as well.

    Do you Oxx feel there is a need for the move from the lightwieght point of veiw?

    I think this has more to do with The SV650 VS the Buell XBRR and the BMW R1200's That seem to be popular in other regions.

    oh sorry scott 51 Horsepower

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    Signature edit by Tricky mike

  21. #46
    Goodbye Sweet Dreams BLACK SQUIRREL's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    Wait, so my GS500 has(had) a chance in ULSS?
    No,

    But there are some built ones in other regions that compete, They usally run sportsman classes as well (where they dont have Ptwins)

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    Zip Tie Alley Racing #444


    Signature edit by Tricky mike

  22. #47
    Senior Member jtaylor719's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    I think the UltraLight rule F'n flat-out sucks! That's the best race of the weekend because there are NO F'n SVs in it!

    Now I'll have to race a friggin' SV in every class I run in. All the more reason to have a motor built over the winter.

    I'm pissed.

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    Joel Taylor
    LRRS/CCS #719

  23. #48
    Just Registered The Crashing Tomato's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    U have got to be kidding! From the sounds of this CCS update I just bought a really nice track day bike????


    SU - eeeeet somebody =>>

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    ---------------------------------------------------
    Originally Posted by hammadown .....
    The rule is:
    If even Zip Tie Alley says, "no you shouldn't use a zip tie on that" you REALLLLLLY shouldn't use a zip tie on that! lol

  24. #49
    Just Registered 13's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    LOL, Eric Wood has nothing to do with running LRRS or CCS.

    You probably want to be emailing Don or Jerry.

    derek
    Eric Wood wasn't emailed. Eric Kelcher, Director of Competition for CCS, was.

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    One of the former LRRS #13's

    http://www.facebook.com/ChrisWatt762

    JT42

  25. #50
    Lifer smf's Avatar
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    CCS Rule Updates for 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose441 View Post
    oh sorry scott 51 Horsepower
    as i understand it you've got big pistons in that thing. that puts you a lot closer to 70hp

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    you know. i like the hawk..i really do. enough in fact that i bought an SV. i realize that getting a hawk can be less expensive than an SV but really they are about the same. with all the $$ spent to keep these hawks alive and trying to make them handle you could have bought an SV. i understand your concern about having the Svs in UL but it evolution. there was a time when air cooled 750cc I-4 were heavyweight or superbikes....what are they now? ULSB. the rules have to change eventually
    no argument there, technology will move forward and older stuff will get left behind at some point. i just don't think that point should be now. if something had come out that was forcing the SV to get slaughtered then maybe, but the SV already has numerous classes it does well it whereas the oddball bikes only have 1

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    Scott
    1990 Honda Hawk NT700 (rebuilt?)
    2012 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (retarded fun)

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