Curious about some thing....20 minute practice sessions

[6 Fingered Man]

i'd rather be passed from an AM/EX doing 35's than a NV doing 25's

No, I'm talking about the am's doing 35s getting passed by guys doing 16s. Same deal as the nv guys doing 40s getting pased by nv mw guys diong 23s. Especily because with the displacment difference most of the speed diferance is on the straights, the safest place to pass.

[Kurlon]

No, I'm talking about the am's doing 35s getting passed by guys doing 16s. Same deal as the nv guys doing 40s getting pased by nv mw guys diong 23s. Especily because with the displacment difference most of the speed diferance is on the straights, the safest place to pass.

The difference between Am/Ex time disparities vs Nv/Nv is the Am/Ex guys have more experience and are more consistent and predictable, both the passer and the passee. With the Nv/Nv mash up you've got less experience on both riders, and it only takes one of them to guess wrong for bad things to happen.

[tls25rs]

No, I'm talking about the am's doing 35s getting passed by guys doing 16s. Same deal as the nv guys doing 40s getting pased by nv mw guys diong 23s. Especily because with the displacment difference most of the speed diferance is on the straights, the safest place to pass.

The difference is that when it is EX passing AM the AM has likely been doing this long enough to not only know the line but also stay on it while running the slower lap times. When it is a faster NV passing a slower, likley newer racer, NV quite frequently the slower NV does not know the line and will sometimes weave across the track and take strange unpredictable lines lap after lap. This is where the danger comes in, in addition to the speed differential.

Another issue comes from the faster NV while still having a better knowledge of the race line they are not as familiar with the whole racing game like an EX would be. The reason this is a big thing is that an EX racer will likely know better how to get out of a dangerous situation then will a faster NV.

[Jim]

The MW AM's were doing like 24's at worst. Not sure who you saw doing 35's.

[6 Fingered Man]

The flip sideto that is the slow nv is really slow, and usualy way of line. Ya, they can suddenly change direction and be somewhere else but I can say with complete honesty that I have had more scares and close calls in am ex practice than nv. Had a tard clip me this weekend tryin to pass me in 11, experts are more aggresive fo sure.

[6 Fingered Man]

The MW AM's were doing like 24's at worst. Not sure who you saw doing 35's.

Lighteights, there are guys on sv's going 16 s and pleanty of am's well in the mid 30s.

I don't want to call anyone outbut I know a couple am's who where doing closer to 40's in practace at the begening of the weekend.

[Kurlon]

For sure I'd had much closer passes when I was on track with Am/Ex riders (Motard races) than my normal Nv races, but I wouldn't call them close calls because I knew where I needed to be, the passer knew where they needed to be, and everything completed cleanly. The one time I had actual contact during a race was big Rick brushing my shoulder going into T1 and that just egged me on, but that might be 'cause I'm used to rubbin from mini racing?

[6 Fingered Man]

For sure I'd had much closer passes when I was on track with Am/Ex riders (Motard races) than my normal Nv races, but I wouldn't call them close calls because I knew where I needed to be, the passer knew where they needed to be, and everything completed cleanly. The one time I had actual contact during a race was big Rick brushing my shoulder going into T1 and that just egged me on, but that might be 'cause I'm used to rubbin from mini racing?

Didn't doc get his collar bone broken last year from getting stuffed by a much faster expert in practice?

[Kurlon]

Didn't doc get his collar bone broken last year from getting stuffed by a much faster expert in practice?

Yeah, when T1 was mucked up with airfence due to construction and no-one was 100% on that section yet. Shit happens to the best of them some times, I'd still rather be on track with Am/Ex than Nv.

[onefootedkid]

Yeah, when T1 was mucked up with airfence due to construction and no-one was 100% on that section yet. Shit happens to the best of them some times, I'd still rather be on track with Am/Ex than Nv.

Fair enough.

To me having all the novices combined is not anymore dangerous than am/ex practice with similar closing speeds and way more aggressive, yet more experienced riders.

If we lessen the groups and everyone gets more practice you might even see people calm down a little in practice knowing there is more time to log laps and you don't need to get on the track and crank out 8 fast laps right out of the gate. Who knows?

Shit: Didn't realize Kid was sighed in on my laptop. This was 6 posting...

[13]

High closing speed can always end up bad. This past thursday, in the open session, there was a mixed bag of riders, novice, amateur and expert, not to mention some street riders. I had no trouble at all pinpointing the less experienced riders, as they were MUCH less predictable/consistent. Piling all the novices into one practice would be pandemonium.

[tsanterre]

Friday practices are ALL novice riders AND ALL Penguin Basic Students...

There is a huge difference in lap-times and experience in that group.

[Kurlon]

Friday practices are ALL novice riders AND ALL Penguin Basic Students...

There is a huge difference in lap-times and experience in that group.

Yup, and you've got Penguin observing and acting as control. Also no transponders going so you're not running against the clock.

The real point though is if you want a longer practice, that's what Friday (and sometimes Thursday when available) is for.

[Kitt]

I didn't mind the single practice... I actually think it does help get into a groove and I'm not sure I would have done my fastest lap in a "normal" practice... and, I like to treat my bike just like my guitar amp... set it and leave it. Not too into tweaking things unless absolutely necessary because it can really just turn into a never-ending chasing game for that "perfect" setting which in reality doesn't exist. When there are 2 practice sessions I usually skip one, so I'd be for the one extended practice.

I think you may change your mind as your lap times drop.

[Pittenger5]

Shit: Didn't realize Kid was sighed in on my laptop. This was 6 posting...

Dammit, I was at half mast before this part. Wow ... that sounds kinda gay now.

[6 Fingered Man]

Dammit, I was at half mast before this part. Wow ... that sounds kinda gay now.

You shoulda been there Saturday night....

[Woodcraft]

Friday practices are ALL novice riders AND ALL Penguin Basic Students...

There is a huge difference in lap-times and experience in that group.

Correct, but on average there are only about 25-30 guys total in that session....even less later in the year. Track density plays a part in the equation for sure. It's quite different running 10 Novices with 10 Basic Students (our average July thru October numbers from last year) than running 50 Novices all together on a race weekend.

BTW, those of you who are running 22's and 23's - you're gone to Amatuer anyway.

From a practice standpoint, I like the one long session. However, when I'm trying to test something (like gearing or a new spring), two sessions is absolutely the way to go. When we tested this a couple seasons ago, the vast majority went with the two session plan, which is why that is what we have in place now. I was as surprised as the rest of you when one practice session was the deal this weekend - I actually needed to test stuff last weekend.

As for grouping - once racing gets rolling, you really need to separate bikes by size. The dangers, in my experience, don't come as much from differences in mid corner speed as they come from large closing speeds at the end of the straight. Riders can adjust mid corner to get by someone safely, but when a 1000 is closing on an EX at 35+ mph into turne one scary things can happen. This problem is actually most pronounced from experienced riders who get good drives....the closing speeds for Novices and new guys is actually smaller because the big bike Novice guys don't really know how to get off the corner yet drives yet. Compare the terminal speed of Shane Narbonne to a Novice on a 1000 - you'll see 20-25 mph . Compare the terminal speed of a Novice EX guy to Mark Dages, it will be more like 5-10 mph. The issue there is simply having the experience to make good decisions - something all Novices need time to figure out.

In the end, I don't see any big change happening with practices right now. Most riders are pretty happy. Sure, whoever gets first practice will always complain a little - but a consistent schedule is important for our regular riders and makes things a lot easier on the people in tech inspection. Little things like changing who is in what group every weekend will cause problems for sure. If anyone wants to put in the time to make some alternative suggestions, put it together and we will consider it in the off season.

[Pittenger5]

You shoulda been there Saturday night....

GODDAMMIT... wait ... does this hafta do something with the gay comment?