Tight 10 or Not?

[senecak19]

Anyone know how the voting is coming along for next race weekend?

[Awesome]

I don't think they're running it next weekend. The plans would be for 2 or 3 weekends next year. I'm all for it, the tight ten is the best pavement on that road course.

[McBiggity]

i need more time with it to decide if I like it or not. I didn't take the same line into it twice.
It was interesting though

[s a x m a n]

i like it ... I would not mind it being in rotation for a couple times a year

[Paul_E_D]

tight ten is OK, but the chicane is mickeymouse and there's no smooth way through. Watch the bikes getting hammered through there. That's not roadracing to me. Fine for motards, but the cornerspeed bikes really suffer. It has no flow.

To me, the last thing Loudon needs is another braking zone.

[senecak19]

Exactly my thoughts Paul... this course already forces us to gear down, there's no need to push it even more.

[s a x m a n]

I have to say, that i've been studying my laptimes (from saturday) and comparing them to my non-tight 10 lap times, and I seem to be just a second off my normal track config pace ... so I hope that I was able to find time elsewhere (i feel like I did).

I am looking forward to racing the normal track to see if I improved (=

[senecak19]

Feelings mutual.

[SVRACER01]

part of the deal for running the tight 10 was that they had to fix the crappy bumpy asphault at the apexs of that chicane or put some kinda rumblestrip. either way.... fix it. i avoided the first one and just hammered the second one

[Honclfibr]

I think nobody cares what I think, because I am not an expert racer.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I think nobody cares what I think, because I am not an expert racer.

x2

Then again, experts pay more to race so it's obvious why their opinion should be the only one.

[s a x m a n]

oy ... nothing worse then n00bs whining

we will have put in our time soon enough, but they are in fact the ones who have already put in the time to make it to expert, so yes I can understand why they were looking for the opinion from them ... they are the best ones to know the track and how things are run

i came to terms with the fact that I am joining a club which has long been established ... they have ways about doing things, either I agree or disagree, but since I am new I just need to play nice while I work my way through the system and really get to experiance the yearly grind of LRRS.

stop worring about what is going on ... just go out there and race ... you'll have more fun with it

someday we might be able to have a say, but for now just enjoy the ride ... because if you burn that bridge now they won't listen to you then

we have a rider rep .. use him if you feel strongly about something, thats what he is there for.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by s a x m a n
oy ... nothing worse then n00bs whining

we will have put in our time soon enough, but they are in fact the ones who have already put in the time to make it to expert, so yes I can understand why they were looking for the opinion from them ... they are the best ones to know the track and how things are run

i came to terms with the fact that I am joining a club which has long been established ... they have ways about doing things, either I agree or disagree, but since I am new I just need to play nice while I work my way through the system and really get to experiance the yearly grind of LRRS.

stop worring about what is going on ... just go out there and race ... you'll have more fun with it

someday we might be able to have a say, but for now just enjoy the ride ... because if you burn that bridge now they won't listen to you then

we have a rider rep .. use him if you feel strongly about something, thats what he is there for.

"noobs" whining is the closest they will ever come to knowing what it is like for a new person entering the organization. Since they want more new racers to keep the club strong I would think they would at least offer up an explanation to why certain opinions matter more than others.

From what I heard at the expert only riders meeting (I sat there quietly) their opinions were the same as anyone else's. "Not as much fun" "I like it" "pavement needs to get fixed" "Causes intersections" "welcome change to the track" "reduces passing opportunities" "more motard friendy" etc etc. Same thing you would of heard from new guys. Why didn't they ask the new guys? Probably expecting a skewed opinion against it. We're already trying to learn the track for the first time, of course a lot of us don't want it changed. Shouldn't discredit the AM's or NV's opinion though, just to be had with a grain of salt on management's behalf.

I could get used to it if the pavement were smoother at the apex and I could see a bit more around the corner. That's it. Nothing else. I happen to do pretty f'in well on it compared to others in my practice and races considering I don't like it. I gain tons of time in 10A and could care less about the pavement there. And if they wanna put cones there for me to run over, I'll be happy with that too


I guess the real question should be: How many race weekends have you run on TT10?

I got 1.

[s a x m a n]

i only got 1 too, which is why I have no problem with the experts being asked about it

if you feel so strongly about ... see our rider rep

from a "management" standpoint, logiscally is impossible to try to hear opinions from everyone ... its easier to hear it from your most experianced folks

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by s a x m a n
if you feel so strongly about ... see our rider rep

Jamie you crack me up. Do you still believe in Santa Claus too?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by TheIglu
"Causes intersections"

+100. And who do you think it caused intersections for the most out there? The expert racers who have experience selecting lines and passing safely, or the novice racers who are already all over the track and don't yet have the experience to navigate a new stretch of pavement with difficult reference points and tight turns in a wide open area?

During my second practice on saturday a bike ended up wadded against the NASCAR wall. No airfence. Ambulance took him out of there. I wonder what that guy thinks of tight 10. Too bad he's not an expert, so we'll never know.

[s a x m a n]

you go ahead an laugh, but some of you spend all your time bitching and complaining about LRRS on an internet forum, but then you are up there every weekend

don't race if its that bad

[Honclfibr]

Well now, with your attitude of aggressively defending anything LRRS management does and dismissing anyone who dissents as a whiner, you're well on the right track to becoming a rider rep yourself

Tell you what Jamie, how about you let me be a worthless whiner and I'll let you be a shameless suckup and we'll call it even, eh?

[Awesome]

The experts were asked to stay because they have experience. I stayed and listened, and bit my tongue at some of the whining. Some suggestions were good, some I would expect from an 8 year old.

Rider reps? I've made suggestions to BJ electronically that I did not like the response to. I felt he was putting more effort into dismissing my suggestions and concerns and none considering them. That was the last time I made suggestions to him. I haven't had any concerns to bring to Mike since he's been a rep but I feel pretty confident that he would be happy to lend his attention.

The bumpy track? I'd personally rather they fixed the pavement issues everywhere else in the track. places that we're hitting bumps at steep lean. When i was running over those two patches i was able to have the bike pointed and accelerating before i got to them, it was a bit of a wider line but it put the bike in a better possition to handle the bumps.

I also heard, "it takes away a passing zone" I disagree. Passing coming into 11 is scary as hell for me, I rarely can pull them off and there are often different lines coming into it. I was able to make a bunch of passes on the tight ten and nearly never gain or lose position on the standard figuration.

I felt the turn was somewhat difficult since I had a hard time finding refference points and had to rely more on a sort of timing than a solid point. I liked the change, but I also find I addapt to new tracks very well. The line I took through tight ten is smoother pavement than nearly anywhere else on the track. One vote for tight ten.

P.S. - I don't think that a novices lack of ability entitles them to make a decision concerning the race track. If you take a right in turn 12 because you don't know better do you think we should have an air fence to gaurd you. I watched a novice race and a large amount of them couldn't get out of their own way in corners that they were schooled on. The races taht I watched actually had me wincing and turning my head. If you can point your finger and say that some novices are dangerous, that should mean that you know enough to be faster than those riders, that'll put you out in front of them, winning the races and putting you in AM and EX to race with the safer and more experienced.

[s a x m a n]

i'm not defending ... i'm just racing, and if that means going with the flow so that I can play ... so be it

(=

[SilverDragon]

I thought the turn was an interesting change. At my oh-so-new level, it was great to force me to learn the new corner and find new places to pass (or try!). I agree about experts having more of a voice. As for the whining, its just peoples' opinion, good or bad, I'm interested to hear it all (within reason) - because I might hear something I hadn't thought of or experienced.

I will have to agree with Paul in that it didnt feel like it flowed that well. While I could have carried more speed every place on the track and I in no way blame it for my laptimes, it just felt slower than it needed to.

This message has been brought to you by a COMPLETE rookie.

[zx1012r]

I personally like the tight ten. It definately needs work, though. If the left hand section (10a if you will) were paved and low curbing/rumble strips put in it would make it much better. I was able to pass a few times through the first section, but that may have to do with me picking up the turn better than others. With some work figuring it out, you can definately set people up going into 11 on the outside.

I think some of the reason that Jerry asked the experts is because every year a LOT of novices/amatuers will not return the next year due to whatever reasons. The experts are more likely to be around next year when the desicions are being made for.

The novices are definately not invisible, as I quite enjoy watching them on the track remembering when I was that nervous/excited! What a feeling being able to knock 2 or 3 seconds off your lap time in a weekend!

Mark Dages 454

[s a x m a n]

Originally posted by zx1012r
I personally like the tight ten. It definately needs work, though. If the left hand section (10a if you will) were paved and low curbing/rumble strips put in it would make it much better. I was able to pass a few times through the first section, but that may have to do with me picking up the turn better than others. With some work figuring it out, you can definately set people up going into 11 on the outside.

I think some of the reason that Jerry asked the experts is because every year a LOT of novices/amatuers will not return the next year due to whatever reasons. The experts are more likely to be around next year when the desicions are being made for.

The novices are definately not invisible, as I quite enjoy watching them on the track remembering when I was that nervous/excited! What a feeling being able to knock 2 or 3 seconds off your lap time in a weekend!

Mark Dages 454

wel said ... i'm not against people having opinions ... its the whining and the "nobody wants to hear what I have to say" stuff that bothers me

shit, everyone know I have opinions about everything ... but there is a difference between have an educated thought about a situation, or just complaining and bitching about a situation and not doing anything about it.

[KB]

Well having only 2 races under my belt and one track day the tuesday befroe the "tight" 10 i have a small noobish, novice opinion. Therefore I will ride whatever the fak LRRS throws at me for a configuration and LOVE IT. It will only me make me a better rider. Riding different configs that is.

It's a safe place to ride, the track that is. On the street we look for that one road that will callenge us beyond our ability and are happy with it being "different". That is what we strive for. So that being said why are we concerning with it on the track?

Is it a lap time issue?
Is it a safety issue?
Is it a pavement issue?
What is the issue.

I have been on both tight 10 and regular 10 if you will and to be honest with you I liked both. It made it intertesting and different. Who wants to run the same old shit time after time after time. Why do you go to different tracks? To ride different shit. So LRRS is doing some different shit and I like it.

That is all but seriously who gives a fuck about the pavement or the reference points, it's racing, adapt, overcome, race be happy, take home wood, weather in your pants or on the wall it's all good. Put in your time and maybe in a few years you can be an "expert" and have a say. It's a brotherhood and you gotta start at the bottom.

KB

[a13x]

One of the LRRS biggest strengths is we only race at one track 8 times a year, every year, the same way.

One of the LRRS biggest weaknesses is we only race at one track 8 times a year, every year, the same way.




Some people already sound Institutionalized.

There is a longtime Loudon theory that floats around how many really fast Expert/Amateur LRRS riders can ride around Loudon with their eyes closed.... and they suck ass when they go somewhere else.

I don't want to be that guy. Bring on the changes. I'd run it backwards if I could.