Drifting - How the #@#$?

[lrrs313]

It was an interesting video where he was talking about cornering technique. I'll try to find it. It wasn't on roadracerx, but another roadracing website where they did a 9 or 10 part interview series with him. Good series of videos where he gave some decent insight on his style and technique. I was just trying to paraphrase what he said.

I just can't stand him. Everyone at that level has their own style; McCoy was criticized in his day by the veteran riders. They said about the same as Mladin.

[keeena]

I take drifting as general term which means direction the vehicle is pointing is different than the direction of travel. Backing it in is specifically on deceleration and power sliding on acceleration.

The how? I'm not an experienced racer. In my case, I've had my rear step out a couple times coming into NHMS T1 because of sloppy downshifting or step out riding out of T12 due to abrupt power delivery...both are "bad" drifting examples.

The why? It looks like a lot of fun and expert knowledge of your edges. I equate it a bit to learning to hockey stop really well. A bit hard to explain exactly how to do it (edge control). But once you get it right, you have that much better understanding of the mechanics and adds to your skill set.

[seth399]

..and then they have the torque to apply throttle and spin it up!

It isn't drifting... it is "backing it in"

It's not all backing it in...you can drift other than toward an apex of a corner. As stated by above vidzzzz

[CBR929RE]

I know this has been posted before but here's Teach backing it in and drifting (powersliding) YouTube- BMW S1000RR Chris Teach McNeil Drifting and Stunting 2010

and here's McCoy talking a little bit about one of his slides YouTube- Faster Gary McCoy King of Slide

[BSR6]

Ok so I just watched the video posted in one of the earlier replies with Mladin. Again I have no idea what I am talking about but it sounds like he is trying put himself up a level on everyone else. He is basically saying backing it in is due to the bikes changing and the result of those changes being a lighter rear wheel coming into the turns etc etc, which may be true. At the same time though, he seems to be implying he is a step above because he has figured out how to work the bike to keep it in line, while the guys who let the rear step out are doing so because they lack this skill.

I know its a far comparison, but if it really is fundamentally the same thing I am doing on my mountain bike then he is wrong. He says at one point guys who back it in are waisting a lot of time by doing it. I can tell you right now that based on what I do on my bicycle, working to keep the wheels in line takes more time. The idea of stepping the back end out is to shorten the amount of time and space you need to set up for the turn. Not stepping out the rear means the bike is not pointed into the corner as much which means you have to lengthen/round your approach (which usually results in a rounder exit) to set this aim. This means earlier braking, and later on the throttle.

Seems to me like its a skill he never learned and is to self-righteous to admit it. I know he is a great rider but that doesn't make every aspect of his technique great. We all have our weak points.

Aside from my rant about Mladin, am I understanding this concept right?

[Paul_E_D]

Yeah, but on a powered vehicle many times it's about who can lay the power down first heading OUT of the corner. Time gained on the way in can easily be lost on the way out. If you're sliding to the apex and I'm on the gas ten feet before the apex, whose gonna be ahead at the end of the next straight?

[Jason P.]

Yea i saw the video of rossi doing this - i figure it was to get a better corner entry speed - still looks ballsy as fuck.

aren't they all countersteering? for a while i didnt know the purpose of countersteering on a bike until i watched this

[BSR6]

Paul you and I are on the same page. For some reason on the mountain bike stepping it out as you come into the turn creates a better line coming out. Well, its not "for some reason" its just hard to explain.

The fact that on a motorcycle you have engine braking as well as throttle to factor in, does make things different. My argument is based more on the effect it has on your line. Frankly I think when you factor in engine braking and throttle it makes my point even more valid since it allows you to get on the throttle earlier. Mladin seems to be throwing in an extra step to keep the rear wheel spinning. The others are skipping that step and instead using the lack of traction to their advantage while not bothering with the task of trying to keep it in line.

Backing it in also proves his point about riding the front. Letting the back end step out is all about riding the front when you think about it. At least thats where my mind is when I do it on my mountain bike. Letting the back end slide reduces that stabilizing effect it tends to have, which sometimes seems to push on the front end while turning. Again, this is all coming from the mountain biking but the more I hear from the motorcycle guys the more I am convinced that despite some major differences, they are doing it for the same reasons.

[Kham]

something new here? i thought drifting means power sliding through the turn and NOT braking. wtf was that movie? drifting something?

[CBR929RE]

Ok so I just watched the video posted in one of the earlier replies with Mladin. Again I have no idea what I am talking about but it sounds like he is trying put himself up a level on everyone else. He is basically saying backing it in is due to the bikes changing and the result of those changes being a lighter rear wheel coming into the turns etc etc, which may be true. At the same time though, he seems to be implying he is a step above because he has figured out how to work the bike to keep it in line, while the guys who let the rear step out are doing so because they lack this skill.

I know its a far comparison, but if it really is fundamentally the same thing I am doing on my mountain bike then he is wrong. He says at one point guys who back it in are waisting a lot of time by doing it. I can tell you right now that based on what I do on my bicycle, working to keep the wheels in line takes more time. The idea of stepping the back end out is to shorten the amount of time and space you need to set up for the turn. Not stepping out the rear means the bike is not pointed into the corner as much which means you have to lengthen/round your approach (which usually results in a rounder exit) to set this aim. This means earlier braking, and later on the throttle.

Seems to me like its a skill he never learned and is to self-righteous to admit it. I know he is a great rider but that doesn't make every aspect of his technique great. We all have our weak points.

Aside from my rant about Mladin, am I understanding this concept right?

according to that conversation he brakes a lot later than everyone else. The guy said at either Road Atlanta or VIR (I forget which) he was braking 75 feet later than everyone else.


and yes he is quite arrogant.

[CMG241]

The guy on the white bike is nuts, he's standing up on the pegs during his biggest slides. Holy shit.

bet he's got about 5lbs in the rear tire

[jcbell1007]

according to that conversation he brakes a lot later than everyone else. The guy said at either Road Atlanta or VIR (I forget which) he was braking 75 feet later than everyone else.


and yes he is quite arrogant.

I put Mladin typical with most other professional athletes as far as arrogance goes.

As far as his technique, I was just presenting another alternative/style that I had found. obviosly its controversial because of the amount of conversation its generated in this thread. His style makes sense to me actually. I would think that you would get better braking out of the front with the tires inline. The chassis is less upset, allowing you to put more pressure and essentially brake harder. If you back it in, there is no way that you can put as much pressure on the front brake due to the fact that the you have a lot of side acting force on the bike, especially the front. If you look at the videos where guys are backing it in, the forks are turned into the slide as the bike goes sidways.

so here's another take I want to throw out there, and I really don't have the answer for you.

Take a rally car, set up for tarmac like in ken blocks gymkhana stuff, and send it around a corner rally style, (drifting). Then take a similarly spec'd road racing car and send it around the same corner, but in traditional fashion without drifting, which would be faster? I'm not talking about dirt here because that's a whole nother story. for this scenario, consider the road surface only tarmac.

[R1]

I give this thread a thumbs up

[drop]

I give this thread a thumbs up

i see what you did there.

[Evil_Weasel]

hey look, it's Xaus NOT crashing.

[Paul_E_D]

Love that shot! A perfect example of backing it in on purpose. THAT is not fast. In racing backing it in is not a technique IMO, but rather the result of braking/shifting techniques and bike setup. It can definitely be fast, but there IS a severe limitation to it. You cannot reach max lean angle or set your corner speed until the back end has hooked up. Nor can you get on the gas to go forward. If you mistime a shift and slide a little farther than you intended, your corner is hacked and you lose time. Your tires don't have the same amount of traction from start to finish. THat means you have to constantly adjust your marks to produce the right amount of slide. That is going to lead to mistakes. No two ways about it.

Look at Mladin, He was EASILY the fastest, most consistent rider in the AMA for years. He didn't make many mistakes. Not sliding into the corners was definitely a factor in his consistency and speed.

This is the same reason the 800s don't slide much. THey need to acheive consistently high corner speeds and mistakes cost precious tenths. THey are constantly harping about braking stability. They want to keep the bike in line so they can get the highest possible entry speed.

[BSR6]

From what I am learning backing it in is only effective in certain corners. Maybe the corner they refer to with Mladin in road atlanta is not one of them? Look at Rossi, he is leaps and bounds ahead of Mladin, and uses the drifting technique. I guess we can only speculate since none of us will ever be as good as these guys and therefore never know first hand.

Mlading may be consistant but like my buddy always says, if your that consistant and never make mistakes are you really pushing yourself? Sure Mladin was fast, but he never went to MotoGP. Its almost like he mastered the superbike field and wanted to stay where he was comfortable. Its much easier to be consistant when you are riding well within your limits. Its like repeating a grade in school even though you got good grades the first time around, then bragging about how well you did the second time around. This is why I have more respect for guys like Spies. At least he is willing to take it to the next level.

Sorry this topic is beginning to split between understanding the benefits and techniques behind drifting, and my relentless rant about how self righteous Mladin is.