Endurance Racing

[tsorfas]

So we have the LRRS Endruance during the classic.
And we have the USGPRU (I don't think that's how you spell it) around then.. Umm I guess it's USCRA that does the Endruance race?
Are there any other endurance events locally?

Kinda sucks that ASRA has a team challenge in every single other even but NHMS

[csmutty]

Njmp usually has a team challenge.

[tsorfas]

Yes ASRA holds the team challenge everywhere else but NHMS.

I was wondering if there is another endurance event.

Maybe Lrrs wants to have a second one this year?
Maybe allow/encourage another organization to have one?

[Chippertheripper]

Netra snow run enduro 3/1. Throw the dirty wheels on the ktm.

[Paul_E_D]

Yes ASRA holds the team challenge everywhere else but NHMS.

I was wondering if there is another endurance event.

Maybe Lrrs wants to have a second one this year?
Maybe allow/encourage another organization to have one?

LRRS seems to not like endurance racing. Not as much cash flow.

[tsorfas]

LRRS seems to not like endurance racing. Not as much cash flow.

One can hope though right?
I mean we had what 12 teams last year? At $300/team it ain't bad for an extra hour or two of work for corner workers and staff since it already takes place during a race weekend and the rules already exist.

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Netra snow run enduro 3/1. Throw the dirty wheels on the ktm.

That would require me to know how to ride a dirt bike properly. Lol

[Paul_E_D]

I'm sure your positive attitude can change what others have tried unsuccessfully to change for 15 years.

[Kurlon]

One can hope though right?
I mean we had what 12 teams last year? At $300/team it ain't bad for an extra hour or two of work for corner workers and staff since it already takes place during a race weekend and the rules already exist.

On the flip side it means monkeying with the normal schedule for the day which is already tight. They have a hard cutoff for when the track MUST go cold to bump against also.

[scottieducati]

Step 1: install lights to light from T4 thru T10.

Step 2: Endurance race nights.

Step 3: Profit.

[tsorfas]

I'm sure your positive attitude can change what others have tried unsuccessfully to change for 15 years.

if a lot of people put in the effort and the demand is there, why would it not happen?

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On the flip side it means monkeying with the normal schedule for the day which is already tight. They have a hard cutoff for when the track MUST go cold to bump against also.

during the summer months i have witnessed racing being done by 4pm... plenty of time left for a 2 or 3 hour endurance race. or maybe just add another event on a friday once or twice a year

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Step 1: install lights to light from T4 thru T10.

Step 2: Endurance race nights.

Step 3: Profit.

i really like the way you thinking my friend

[tls25rs]

They have a hard cutoff for when the track MUST go cold to bump against also.

Not trying to be an ass, serious question.

Where is this hard cutoff for the Legends cars?

[maxim_X]

That would require me to know how to ride a dirt bike properly. Lol

You're never going to learn until you do it. Real talk though, hammering around and racing on a dirt-bike off season will improve your road racing and riding endurance.

[Kurlon]

Not trying to be an ass, serious question.

Where is this hard cutoff for the Legends cars?

You'll note they only run ovals, and I think it's just karts not the 'full size' Legends after hours. The hard cutoff I believe is specific to motorcycles and has to do with the permit with the town.

[tsorfas]

It seriously is one mkre event a year. I didn't say let's change the whole rulebook or add a new class. We will nlw have a 300, 300F and 500 class. You telling me we didn't have the room for 1 more endurance race? Or do you think it wouldn't "sell"?

It's bad enough that ASRA has taken our lack of participation to the point of not even holding the team challenge at nHmS. I won't be surprised if they stop coming to nHms completely.

[Kurlon]

I think it's 'sold' as well as it's going to for now. We've had a couple years of them, they aren't announcing more for this year, or if there is even going to be one. I don't know if the reasons are logistical, permit based, income based or just Tom himself dropping the microphone after saying 'no', etc. All I can offer is observation based on what is known, and what the current trends have been, etc.

On ASRA, bear in mind that they only STARTED running at NHMS in 2009, and never did the team challenge up here from the start.

[Mr. Kurtz]

ASRA isn't doing LRRS a favor by coming, it is supposed to be the other way around. Lack of participation is on them; the point is to add a track(value) to their series, and the benefit to LRRS is bringing out of town racers($$$) to our series.

[tsorfas]

ASRA isn't doing LRRS a favor by coming, it is supposed to be the other way around. Lack of participation is on them; the point is to add a track(value) to their series, and the benefit to LRRS is bringing out of town racers($$$) to our series.

I disagree.
The more race organizations that want to come to your track the better.

That's like saying NJMP is doing AMA a favor for hosting their event.

Most out of town races that I have talked to don't come to nhms because a) they don't conskder it safe (whatever) or b) because they don't consider it a real race series (I can see that since it's just part of CCS)

On that note the older the racer I have talked to (outside lrrs) the more respect they seem to have for loudon.

We should be welcoming and supporting other organizations to host race events on our local track.

Just my opinion. Don't know if it's right or wrong. Just how I see things

[Mr. Kurtz]

I disagree.
The more race organizations that want to come to your track the better.

That's like saying NJMP is doing AMA a favor for hosting their event.

AMA is (in theory?) a spectator drawing, headline, professional event. ASRA is a larger, but still semi-pro, amateur participant driven event. NHMS isn't selling concessions to ASRA spectators. That's a big difference.

Most out of town races that I have talked to don't come to nhms because a) they don't conskder it safe (whatever) or b) because they don't consider it a real race series (I can see that since it's just part of CCS)

On that note the older the racer I have talked to (outside lrrs) the more respect they seem to have for loudon.

We should be welcoming and supporting other organizations to host race events on our local track.

Just my opinion. Don't know if it's right or wrong. Just how I see things

Of course we should, and I think in general, we are. My point above is that you can't lay the blame for low ASRA participation at the feet of NHMS or LRRS...and also, like Josh said, they never did hold a team challenge at NHMS. It's not as if they stopped. They may not be able to draw the number of teams/participants they need to a track 6 hours north of NYC.

The out of town racers who don't come to NHMS because they don't consider it a real race series...what do they run, if not CCS?

[tsorfas]

iv only races CCS and ASRA. Those were just small talks I had with people at other tracks during CCS events.
Lots of outsiders dont see LRRS and CCS as the same level

[csmutty]

It's not that they don't consider LRRS a real race series. They don't consider NHMS a real track.

[tsorfas]

It's not that they don't consider LRRS a real race series. They don't consider NHMS a real track.

whatever, that ^ soemthing among these lines. and sometimes it doesnt matter how things really are, but how they look like.

[csmutty]

But my thoughts on your original post...

In my opinion the endurance race that LRRS is offering currently isn't highly attended enough to warrant more. Endurance racing can be a hard sell. You have to offer up your bike for someone else to ride which can create a host of problems. Also some people just don't want to ride for that long or are novices and can't participate. Don't get me wrong, I love endurance racing, but the only reason I raced in it this past year was because someone was sick and needed a fill in at the last minute.

[tsorfas]

ok i respect that opinion but let me show you why i disagree.

ASRA has a total of of 8 team challenge events and they all take place in different tracks on the east coast.

for 2014 they had a total of 119 Entries. 10 of these teams participated in every single round. over 30 of these teams attended at least 2 rounds.

At NJMP which is the closest thing to us they had 19 entires!

as you see the participation is out there. the beauty of it is that it doesnt require that much extra effort or additional cost.
The track is there, the officials are there, the corner workers are there, and the most important ingredient the racers are ALREADY there because it takes place during a race weekend.

Endurance racing is not hard to sell at all my friend, it happens everywhere but here and it is huge on an international pro level as well.

Unfortunately most people think like exactly that you just described around here thats why it wont be a reality.

you will allow me to simply laugh at the "people dont want to ride for that long" because:
AM GTO in 2014 had 16 entries
AM GTL had 24
AM GTU had 40
EX GTO had 12
EX GTU had 18
EX GTL had 34

Total: 144

if 50% are willing to ride an extra 10 minutes you can have 18 teams!

we can talk theories all day long and it really doesnt matter because nothing is probably going to happen but numbers dont lie.

If someone is running 2 GT races / year is spending more than the cost for 1 entry to an endurance race.

The people are there, the bikes are there, if we can just change our mentality on few things we can make great things happen...

Hell we are hosting a motard race during the classic weekend, which requires a lot more work than the endurance race does (modifying the track, adding landscape, cleaning the track, etc).

[csmutty]

And then I go back to my other post in this thread. NHMS is not considered a real track by the majority that race outside of NHMS. How many outsiders show up to race in ASRA races at NHMS? That should be an indicator.

And the motard race is also the race that the most people like to watch and is the most spectator friendly. Who wants to watch the same bikes going around a track for 3 hours?

Like I said I love endurance racing, but my reasons for not planning on doing it this past year and this year are both financial. Everyone has their reasons, I just listed a few possibilities.

[tsorfas]

by your logic who wants to watch any of us going around for 8 laps 7 times a year? might as well not have any racing at all then...

The GT entries i gave you are from LRRS numbers, these riders are there most weekends, participating in GT races anyways.

I am not proposing an endurance series/class (although that would be fucking awesome, imagine there are teams that build endurance race specific bikes) just add a second endurance race in one summer month. If we got 12 (might have been more) entries last year i think its safe to say we will get 15+ this year (since we have been growing as a community lately). If we have a second event maybe 75% (11-12) teams might do it again or even better people who missed one might attend the other...