Fuel Spec at LRRS

[nhbubba]

If LRRS just defaulted to CSS rules wholesale, would you ask this many questions? Or be more willing to just go with it.

This is the biggest thing I, as an outsider, don't understand about the LRRS/CSS thing.

[wheelieman14]

Sam - they said that pump gas is up to 4% ethanol. Less than the stations down the street, but still has some ethanol.

Having "less ethanol" than the 10% that most public gas stations give us (without much of a choice) is certainly an improvement, but unless you live near a Marina, chances are that you won't find "ethanol free" fuel readily available. The 98 octane Sunoco GTX is "ethanol free" in NHMS pumps, but still costs $9.00/gallon. Too bad NHMS couldn't just offer "ethanol free" 93 octane unleaded pump gas for around $4.00/gallon, then there might not be so much friction against "LRRS Spec Fuel". just saying...

[Jim]

If LRRS just defaulted to CSS rules wholesale, would you ask this many questions? Or be more willing to just go with it.

This is the biggest thing I, as an outsider, don't understand about the LRRS/CSS thing.

LRRS is considered the North East region for CCS. If they followed the CCS rule book, there wouldn't be this discussion (see post #1). Only the LRRS series has a fuel spec for club racing.

[Kurlon]

The primary deviations from CCS so far:

- LRRS specific classes - Production Twins which is going away, now we get Formula 300 which looks to be a better matchup than CCS's Ultralight Thunderbike. We also get P89.

- LRRS prohibits SS/SB built stock displacement SVs and EX650s from ULSB, CCS does not. Given LRRS still has an active Hawk contingent, I'm ok with this one.

- LRRS fuel rule - As noted, both cornerworkers and riders like the lack of 'crazy fuel hangovers' during and after race weekends, the specifics on fuel sources is up for debate with the counter that enforcement gets more difficult as you expand options.

- Eject system - LRRS requires it, CCS does not. There are threads on here you can dig up for more on this debate, or as noted head to the track and talk to Steve Aspland and Todd directly about it.

That's the extent of how we differ from CCS's rule book. The other stuff is track policy which differs track to track, not by series. IE fees for camping, electricity, etc.

The track could offer fully brewed in house carbon negative syngas with non of the downsides of gasoline or ethanol for $0.99 a fill up, unlimited gallons and certain people would still complain if there is a restriction in fuel choices.

[nhbubba]

If you've got any concerns, show up for a race weekend and hang out in the pits to see how things roll for yourself. Talk to Eric Wood, Grahame, Todd, Steve, all the principals are there and accessible.

I've done much of that. I've attended several Penguin track days and am strongly considering signing up for a basic or advanced class next year, even though I still do not think I dedicated enough to actually go racing.

Steve is the tech guy? Knows SV's inside and out? I met him while garaged next to LRRS for the Penguin event before the Classic this year my first time out on my SV. Awesome guy. Helped me understand wtf I had just bought and how I could make it better for me.

I have huge respect for anyone that dedicates that kind of time and effort to any org like LRRS. I only know Graham with respect to being an instructor for the many TTD events I was at. I think very highly of him as well.

My posts should not be construed as some sort of attack against any of these individuals. I don't think they wear cloaks or anything like that. Having met Bergs, I don't think he is of that opinion either. Raising Q's about rules like this can (and should) not be considered any sort of personal attack.

I just don't understand why the special rules for LRRS vs the rest.

Naturally, LRRS or any of the principles have no obligation to answer to me, Bergs, this forum, or anyone else really. Although I'd love to hear more about the 'why' for some of these things.


What really confuses me is that it reads like Jim and Bergs are on the same side of this particular beef.

- - - Updated - - -

If LRRS just defaulted to CSS rules wholesale, would you ask this many questions? Or be more willing to just go with it.

This Q is actually directed to Bergs. I probably should have quoted him. I'm just curious.

[nhbubba]

- LRRS fuel rule - As noted, both cornerworkers and riders like the lack of 'crazy fuel hangovers' during and after race weekends, the specifics on fuel sources is up for debate with the counter that enforcement gets more difficult as you expand options.

By the way, I think this is a fantastic reason for a fuel rule. My opinion is that CSS should have a rule like this, if anyone gives a shit about my opinion.

[Kurlon]

LRRS predates CCS FYI. Affiliating with CCS makes it easier for our racers to participate in other series, as well as making it easy for out of region CCS racers to slot into LRRS. I don't see NHMS, which owns LRRS dropping the series and handing it over to CCS to operate, which is what they'd effectively be doing by going to straight CCS rules. Decisions would then be coming from further away, wherever CCS is headquartered.

The difference between Berg and Jimmy is Jimmy is an active participant, and he politely brings it up. Berg's prior MO was to imply online certain decisions are made solely to line people's pockets while putting riders at increased risks without having the balls to make such claims in person. Hence the reaction from many riders when he rears his head on these topics as you're seeing. Same starting point, but one way is a much better path than the other.

At the track there are a couple Steves, Aspland runs Rising Sun Cycles, he's taller, usually clean shaven head. At Penguin he's typically playing traffic director and making announcements. Steve Nogura(sp?) is shorter, dark hair, has a gorgeous ZRX with Ohlins and typically handles the Basic students.

[Kurlon]

By the way, I think this is a fantastic reason for a fuel rule. My opinion is that CSS should have a rule like this, if anyone gives a shit about my opinion.

Eric Ketchler I think is the person to toss that suggestion to in CCS?

[SVRACER01]

josh. do you have a box full of extra "E" s laying around? im trying to figure out why you keep putting them at the end of Grahams name.

on a related note...i didnt race because the track fuel robbed me at gunpoint. i mean...it really is BAD gas.

[nhbubba]

Geez, it seems I've gone and forgotten all names and confused people again. I probably haven't met anyone on your list after all.

LRRS predates CCS FYI. Affiliating with CCS makes it easier for our racers to participate in other series, as well as making it easy for out of region CCS racers to slot into LRRS.

Interesting. I saw some heartache in this respect when garaged next to LRRS tech before the classic. I'm not going to post details as it doesn't really matter. But if the goal is to be open and accessible to other CSS competitors, it seems some work is still needed.

I don't see NHMS, which owns LRRS dropping the series and handing it over to CCS to operate, which is what they'd effectively be doing by going to straight CCS rules.

I did not know NHMS 'owned' LRRS. And I did not know it predated CSS. That explains a lot.

I guess my beef is that CSS is bullshit for not adopting straight LRRS rules. WTF guys!

[Jim]

Another note about the CCS rule book: CCS only requires oil filter, cap, and drain plug to be safety wired....that's it.

[carsick]

strongly considering signing up for a basic or advanced class

Hahahahaaaa! I mean, good for you!

Steve is the tech guy? Knows SV's inside and out? I met him while garaged next to LRRS for the Penguin event before the Classic this year my first time out on my SV. Awesome guy. Helped me understand wtf I had just bought and how I could make it better for me.

Perhaps you mean Chuck Brighenti, tall fella with a stable of SV's, tech inspector for LRRS. Expert #89. He has helped me several times as well.

[jasnmar]

Corbin isn't great with names.

[butcher bergs]

You forgot transponders, Josh.

I took the proper measures to have my questions addressed but now, based on what I'm reading, everyone now has to drive to NHMS to get answers face to face? So on that logic, I guess I should have driven to the CCS offices, eh?

How happy are the ASRA riders that have been DQ'ed becuase of a mid-season fuel spec rule change?

Yep, I know nothing of what's going on.

Josh, in light of your tuning questions on WERA, I'd figure you of all people would be wanting to know what the history is on the fuel you are tuning to.

To quote a text I sent earlier today:
This conversation is becoming lost. I would like nothing more than to be racing at Loudon but more importantly, I like consistency with my race organization. Until LRRS is quite a bit more in line with CCS, I will continue to voice my opinion on the forums and inform others of the stack up of items required to be licensed by CCS and race in LRRS.

[Kurlon]

josh. do you have a box full of extra "E" s laying around? im trying to figure out why you keep putting them at the end of Grahams name.

These leftover Es aren't going to move themselves! (Spellcheck says that spelling is right, now it's become habit... bah.)

[Jim]

How happy are the ASRA riders that have been DQ'ed becuase of a mid-season fuel spec rule change?

Yep, I know nothing of what's going on

Pretty sure the ASRA races at NHMS didn't have fuel regulations because that's a different series. Now if those riders entered in any LRRS races, they will be forced to follow the LRRS fuel regulations. Then again, you'd know that if you attended

Unless you're referring to the combined LRRS and ASRA races two years ago, where Unlimited SS and MW SS were automatically entered in ASRA super stock and ASRA sport bike. But they'd have to pay the entree fee difference if they wanted to be part of that actual ASRA series.

[MarkMarine]

You forgot transponders, Josh.

I took the proper measures to have my questions addressed but now, based on what I'm reading, everyone now has to drive to NHMS to get answers face to face? So on that logic, I guess I should have driven to the CCS offices, eh?

How happy are the ASRA riders that have been DQ'ed becuase of a mid-season fuel spec rule change?

Yep, I know nothing of what's going on.

Josh, in light of your tuning questions on WERA, I'd figure you of all people would be wanting to know what the history is on the fuel you are tuning to.

To quote a text I sent earlier today:
This conversation is becoming lost. I would like nothing more than to be racing at Loudon but more importantly, I like consistency with my race organization. Until LRRS is quite a bit more in line with CCS, I will continue to voice my opinion on the forums and inform others of the stack up of items required to be licensed by CCS and race in LRRS.

I, for one, am happy you aren't getting your questions answered, seems to me like you need a tin foil hat. Also happy I don't have to listen to this BS at the riders meeting. Have fun racing WERA. LRRS, don't change a thing.

[tsorfas]

Racing with th ASRA guys I had a blast btw. And the few officials were extremely friendly and polite.
That might be my one problem with lrrs this year.
I signed up for the ASRA thunderbike while they were on pregrid.
I have tried 4 times this year to add races prior to 11am but after 930am and I was denied every time. Even in races with no other entries or willing to go dead last.

Rules are rules I get that but I really don't thin it was such inconvenience especially in AM

[Jim]

That's because it's ASRA. You get 2-4 weeks for your LRRS entries. Don't wait till race day.

[tsorfas]

That's because it's ASRA. You get 2-4 weeks for your LRRS entries. Don't wait till race day.

It's racing dude! Things happen

[Jim]

It's racing dude! Things happen

I never had issues with my 34 entries

[MarkMarine]

Honestly, the CCS races I've done seem like a clusterfuck, and whatever the guys at LRRS have done to encourage the "culture" in NHMS has worked. Stuff gets stolen at the other events, and I don't think twice about leaving my bike unlocked or my toolbox on the bench at NH. People help each other out. We might not have the safest track, and people from other orgs can argue the rulebook is a little batty (telling you what you explicitly can't do and everything else is creative interpretation, where other orgs tell you what you can do. Much easier to comply with in my opinion) but I still prefer the way LRRS is run than any of the other events or orgs I've run with.

Jim, I know you missed it this year, but you can always bring these rule changes up at the rules meeting. Last year the rules I heard proposed made it into the books for this year. They listen.

[MaRce1o]

The transponder would be nice if we could use the CCS version, i paid $80 for my and have had it for 2 years and its supposedly good for 5

[nhbubba]

Hahahahaaaa! I mean, good for you!

Perhaps you mean Chuck Brighenti, tall fella with a stable of SV's, tech inspector for LRRS. Expert #89. He has helped me several times as well.

Faq.. I think that is indeed, my guy. He's got more than SV's. I really, really do suck with names. I am sorry to all for that.


Anyway. On with the name calling and finger pointing.

[tsorfas]

I never had issues with my 34 entries

Well you decided to crash and watch half the season plus you do the same races every weekend. I wanted to try new bikes and races.