Hawk or SV?

["Dangerous" Dan K]

So I'm thinking down the road I'd like something I can race outside LRRS, in CCS, for the winter and whatnot. Even if it's just a few a year, just to get my fix. I'm sure if you're reading the pit area in December you understand where I'm coming from.

Initially I was sold on a LWSS SV, 90 or newer, since 89 was apparently a bad year for them. I like that the LWSS rules stay closer to the ptwin rules, with it being more rider and less bike (yes, I'm figuring I'll suck less by then, thanks). Then I heard a very convincing argument for an ULSB Hawk instead. Apparently one can be built for similar $. The year will matter less, since I won't be stuck in LWSS rules racing a 90 SV against other SV's 20 years newer. I was told that once you build a 70ish HP Hawk with a 700 kit it more or less stays reliable. You thrown on forks, shock, etc. and you have a pretty good race bike. Nobody that has seen Gino race can deny that a Hawk can make a damn competitive ULSB bike. Some might even say it can be a championship bike

So, if you loved the rider class that is ptwins, but were considering something that could run other CCS classes, which way would you go? The goal being to have the most competitive bike for the $ you can get for a given class. I have no interest in a "he who spends the most wins" class. I'm fine getting my ass kicked because I am not as good as someone, but would rather not get my ass kicked because my race budget isn't 3x what it is, per year.

Decisions, decisions...

And all this brought about by a single track day down south this winter, and the realization that if I had a different bike I could actually be RACING right now rather than dreaming of LRRS starting up again. Damn you, Six.

[Pittenger5]

Hawk =\= competitive in CCS anymore.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

And why is that Dolla? Anyone told Gino yet?

[Pittenger5]

CCS =\= Loudon

[Doc]

As much as I hate to say it Richie is right.

The Hawk is only gonna be good at Loudon. Everywhere else they are letting Superbike SV's into ULSB.

[butcher bergs]

Get an older MW and you can go anywhere.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Get an older MW and you can go anywhere.

Talk to me brother. Model? Acceptable years?

[Kurlon]

Older MW... aka 600 inline 4

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Older MW... aka 600 inline 4

Oh. Ow. Did anyone just see that Hunter Orange bike just cartwheel over the treehouse?

[butcher bergs]

Talk to me brother. Model? Acceptable years?

Put it to you like this, my 2002 doesn't make that much more power than a built SV. If you're really after "more rider, less bike" then consider an older MW. As you know, you're gonna have to make up your HP deficit by making more cornerspeed.

[Doc]

I personally would stay outta Middleweight.

Stick to ULSB or LWSB. Ducati 800ss or SV650

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Put it to you like this, my 2002 doesn't make that much more power than a built SV. If you're really after "more rider, less bike" then consider an older MW. As you know, you're gonna have to make up your HP deficit by making more cornerspeed.

Yeah, that's what I'm after. I realize I'm lacking currently, but I want to progress because I got better, not because I bought a better bike. Still, 600 class? I'd better get the fuck out of novice and get a new name first.

I personally would stay outta Middleweight.

Stick to ULSB or LWSB. Ducati 800ss or SV650

Thoughts on which and why?

Also, to keep this convo up to date (a lot of it has happened on AIM) it appears CCS has let SV's run with the Hawks in ULSB, hence making a hawk useless unless you're Gino.

[daviid]

the only hawks i saw out in ccs land this year was in ULSB and that was in the beginning of the year. towards the end i didnt see any. Next year i doubt i will see any period.

[butcher bergs]

Yeah, that's what I'm after. I realize I'm lacking currently, but I want to progress because I got better, not because I bought a better bike. Still, 600 class? I'd better get the fuck out of novice and get a new name first.

You wouldn't be on a better bike, comparatively speaking.

[Doc]

Yeah, that's what I'm after. I realize I'm lacking currently, but I want to progress because I got better, not because I bought a better bike. Still, 600 class? I'd better get the fuck out of novice and get a new name first.

Thoughts on which and why?

Also, to keep this convo up to date (a lot of it has happened on AIM) it appears CCS has let SV's run with the Hawks in ULSB, hence making a hawk useless unless you're Gino.

Let's be clear. SV's can't run ULSB at Loudon (yet). They can everywhere else.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Let's be clear. SV's can't run ULSB at Loudon (yet). They can everywhere else.

That's what I mean. LRRS only I may as well keep my EX... I like it. I want a CCS bike.

[Rambunctous]

Why can I not vote for a 125 or 250? Race em anywhere. Holds value and warms the planet with aromic vapors.

[OreoGaborio]

ask Gino how much he spent on that Hawk to make it a Championship caliber bike.

On second thought..... don't. He'll cry.

[Doc]

I bet Gino could go pretty quick on my bike and I only have $3-3500 in mine (so far)

[butcher bergs]

I want a CCS bike.

Shall I phone a friend about his ZX6?

[SVRACER01]

Initially I was sold on a LWSS SV, 90 or newer, since 89 was apparently a bad year for them. I like that the LWSS rules stay closer to the ptwin rules, with it being more rider and less bike (yes, I'm figuring I'll suck less by then, thanks). Then I heard a very convincing argument for an ULSB Hawk instead. Apparently one can be built for similar $. The year will matter less, since I won't be stuck in LWSS rules racing a 90 SV against other SV's 20 years newer. I was told that once you build a 70ish HP Hawk with a 700 kit it more or less stays reliable. You thrown on forks, shock, etc. and you have a pretty good race bike. Nobody that has seen Gino race can deny that a Hawk can make a damn competitive ULSB bike. Some might even say it can be a championship bike

really? no one?
sigh.....Dan...the SV wasnt made until 99. so yeah..i guess 89 was a bad year for them...so was 90. 99-02 (1st generation) SVs were carb bikes with tube frames like mine. from 03-present (2nd gen) they went to fuel injection and the square frames like Petes. performance wise they are pretty similar. the FI bike makes a few extra ponies out of the box but if money were no object you can actually squeeze extra HP out of the 1st gen since you can always put bigger carbs on. either generation i would think would be fine for you.
forget the hawk...its a dying breed as one day the SV will be. a SS SV will run with most ULSB hawks any day...which is why we dont run them together. if were seriously thinking of running CCS elsewhere in the country though and you have a hawk...you will be running against SVs since CCs allows SVs in ULSB now.

bottom line...SV

[scottieducati]

Hey Daaaaannnnnn..... I got a Duc 800SS for youuuuuu

[nt650hawk]

All you Hawk haters....

Money spent, well worth it.
Time spent, well worth it.
Experience gained, well worth it.
Trials and tribulations, well not so much but well worth it.
Blood sweat and tears, well worth it.
Friendships gained, well worth it.
Being on a different bike than everyone else, well worth it.
Knowing that I might not podium, Put the fight in me to achieve higher goals. WELL WORTH IT.

Being the underdog. HELL YEA, WELL WORTH IT.
One of my biggest reasons for getting the Hawk was because it was and still is an underdog.

If you want to experience all of this get a Hawk.







If you want to be like everyone else and cave in to the it's easier mentality. ---> get your ass on an SV/EX







..... I know what you mean. A MW PT SV/EX are now running the same times If not faster than Henry and I. A lot of that has to do with the riders. I'm not at their level. I have a long ways to go.

[Doc]

Forget the Hawk...its a dying breed as one day the SV will be. a SS SV will run with most ULSB hawks any day...which is why we dont run them together. if were seriously thinking of running CCS elsewhere in the country though and you have a hawk...you will be running against SVs since CCs allows SVs in ULSB now.

bottom line...SV

I agree. The Hawk is a cult bike. It has a good following but it is on it's way out. It would make a good non competetive racer especially if you like to tinker. It still runs well at Loudon and really rewards corner speed (and I dare say has made me a better rider). It won't get you very far anywhere else now that the SV's are allowed in ULSB.
I disagree with Oxx though. Same rider on a SS SV or an ULSB Hawk I bet would put down comparable lap times. Or we could look at the Fast guys in those classes at Loudon:
SS SV 1:17's to low 1:20's
ULSB Hawks, 1:18's low 1:20's
Granted I think it is easier to get those times outta an SV,(and I question just how SS those SV's are...) The Lap Record on a Hawk at Loudon is 1:17.2 What is it on a SS SV?

FWIW I will sell my 998 before I sell my Hawk. It will make a good little streetbike/tracktoy and I can teach my son to ride it when he is older long after I retire from racing.

Now it seems you want a turn key, no hassle, competetive racebike. Like these guys are telling you. Get an SV.

[Doc]

All you Hawk haters....

Money spent, well worth it.
Time spent, well worth it.
Experience gained, well worth it.
Trials and tribulations, well not so much but well worth it.
Blood sweat and tears, well worth it.
Friendships gained, well worth it.
Being on a different bike than everyone else, well worth it.
Knowing that I might not podium, Put the fight in me to achieve higher goals. WELL WORTH IT.

Being the underdog. HELL YEA, WELL WORTH IT.
One of my biggest reasons for getting the Hawk was because it was and still is an underdog.

If you want to experience all of this get a Hawk.

If you want to be like everyone else and cave in to the it's easier mentality. ---> get your ass on an SV/EX


..... I know what you mean. A MW PT SV/EX are now running the same times If not faster than Henry and I. A lot of that has to do with the riders. I'm not at their level. I have a long ways to go.

Gino is too Modest! He is DA MAN!

The rest of it I agree with. It takes a "Special" person to race a Hawk. Just like it takes a "Special" person to Race an EX500.