No more HJC helmets at LRRS

[Degsy]

Originally posted by Allan
And you can discount Rossi and his AGV – nobody wears AGV except people that buy his race replica…and he only does because he gets paid too much.

Ooh ooh, me me!!!

[Paul_E_D]

Wow, the point of that one was entirely missed. I don't think SNELL wants data from an uncontrolled environment. That's not their bag. I'm not accusing anyone of witholding anything.

In fact, I think this discussion is well outside the expertise of anyone here, so I'm done.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
In fact, I think this discussion is well outside the expertise of anyone here

AMEN!!!

[license2ill]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Wow, the point of that one was entirely missed. I don't think SNELL wants data from an uncontrolled environment. That's not their bag. I'm not accusing anyone of witholding anything.

In fact, I think this discussion is well outside the expertise of anyone here, so I'm done.

I take that to mean it's surpassed your level. I'd stil love to get all these misconceptions, which are heavy throughout this thread, sorted. I've been through a lot of info, but it appears not too many people have even started with a read of the basics, like the Snell website for starters.

[OreoGaborio]

THIS THREAD IS A FUCKING DISEASE

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE PEOPLE, SHUT THE FUCK UP & LET IT DIE.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
THIS THREAD IS A FUCKING DISEASE

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE PEOPLE, SHUT THE FUCK UP & LET IT DIE.

Feel free not to read or post anything here then. Some of us are trying to have a discussion here, if you're not interested noone is holding a gun to your head. You don't seem to be capable of adding much other than your lips to various peoples' asses so far anyway, so I doubt you will be missed.

[HBerry]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
THIS THREAD IS A FUCKING DISEASE

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE PEOPLE, SHUT THE FUCK UP & LET IT DIE.

Petey, if you owned an HJC helmet or two, I think your responses would be a bit different. Even if they wouldn't be, you could take your caps lock off and add something constructive rather than swearing at people. Some people would like to know if their is any real world proof, outside of LRRS that ARAI helmets are safer than HJC's. We have had Allan and Deb say that fit is very important, but I had my HJC fit to my head when I bought it, and it fits exactly the way Deb said it should fit.

As for big crashes from me, I am running slow times, and its almost impossible to highside my bike, so I guess I haven't really worried about how safe my helmet is yet. Yes I know I could still smash my head off the pavement, or have my head run over.

If I were taken into a store, and shown two helmets and not their price tag, and told that the last 5 people that had head injures were wearing helmet X, I wouldn't be very impressed, or unimpressed for that matter. There are probably 5 people an hour that get head injures on motorcylces. How about the last 50000 head injures? Also, how many people total have crashed in brand X, and what percent of those had head injuries.

[Awesome]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Feel free not to read or post anything here then. Some of us are trying to have a discussion here, if you're not interested noone is holding a gun to your head. You don't seem to be capable of adding much other than your lips to various peoples' asses so far anyway, so I doubt you will be missed.

[SBT Deb]

I think if more people took as much time to get properly fitted for a helmet as they did posting information which is not entirely accurate that our HEADS would be better off lol
--------------------------->swallowing the advil.

[SBT Deb]

omfg HAHAHAH Jay that is great.

[HBerry]

To add to that, obviously we are all going to suck it up and put our HJC's on the shelf in a closet in our house and buy a more expensive helmet (I know it isn't about price, but they are still more expensive) if we are going to continue to race at LRRS. I'll go to a store and get fitted for a helmet that is approved by LRRS, and if they give me great service, and a decent price, I will buy from them. If they are 20+% more expensive than another shop, or online retailer, I won't buy from them.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by SBT Deb
I think if more people took as much time to get properly fitted for a helmet as they did posting information which is not entirely accurate that our HEADS would be better off lol
--------------------------->swallowing the advil.

I agree completely with this statement. And feel that a check for proper helmet fit at NHIS during tech would be completely justified and a good step towards reducing head injuries. As you recall, they check very carefully for a snug fit at VIR. And probably other tracks as well?

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Feel free not to read or post anything here then. Some of us are trying to have a discussion here, if you're not interested noone is holding a gun to your head. You don't seem to be capable of adding much other than your lips to various peoples' asses so far anyway, so I doubt you will be missed.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I agree completely with this statement. And feel that a check for proper helmet fit at NHIS during tech would be completely justified and a good step towards reducing head injuries. As you recall, they check very carefully for a snug fit at VIR. And probably other tracks as well?

seems to me that would do more good then banning helmets ...after all..they are only thinking of saftey

[Awesome]

This is like a political arguement. Quality helmets are important, and being properly fit is just as important. But so many of these claims are just rediculous. Arai makes a good product, sure but it IS NOT the only way to go for safety. I'm glad you stand by what you sell Allen, and i'm glad you're knowledgable. You're however stating that Arai cares about saving lives and everyone else just wants to sell you helmets and watch you die. I've been to motomarket a number of times, and i have to say, i'm not a fan of the crowd. You sell the top of the line most expensive stuff to the yuppies that come there to stand around and talk about how fast their bikes are and how much they spent on their new mods, of course they all have the most expensive helmets and it's easy to sell them too, because you just wouldn't be cool showing up with anything that cost less than $700 slung over your mirror while you have a capiccino.

Sorry about the rant....I just don't like the crowd, that's why I rarely come around there, I guess it sets me off a bit.

My point being cost does not always reflect quality and there are many manufacturers that make quality helmets other than ARAI.

And overall I'm appreciating the decisions from LRRS more so as I believe the helmet I've been using may not offer the level of protection that I'm comfotable with. I also stand by my originial opinion that the time between race weekends is not an acceptable notice to require a costly helmet upgrade, and there should be more supporting evidence for the decision, as well as a solid outline other tha, some helmets won't be accepted and some will.

And pete's still...

[a13x]

Darrell,

For the 1000th time.

The central saftey issue is with a certain TYPE / BUILD of helmet, not a helmet brand.

Reread that. Reread it again.


If you wanted to race in a Arai Openfaced helmet.. you couldn't, because that TYPE of helmet isn't legal. HJC is just one, of a few, various brands that make the TYPE / BUILD of helmet in question.

When you can discern the difference between talking about Brand Names, and actual TYPES, then we can talk. You're blind assumption that this is purely a Arai VS HJC issue is silly. You can easily substitute Arai with Shoei and HJC with Budget Brand XX (who also happens to make the questionable TYPE).


Step back. Strip away faces, money values, brand names, and all that stuff. Look at the test group in question (the last 10 or so head injuries at our one track), look at the evidence, then tell me why this decision is so horrid?

[SBT Deb]

The same goes for License 2ill. You my friend are a dangerous person. Please do not give out any Helmet information as you have NO clue as to what you are talking about. This entire issue has been taken from one end of the spectrum to your fantasy land of the Helmet world. I don't know who you are or where you came from but I am glad you are not a rep for ANY Parts Business, or some who gives advice to Racers specifically, but also street riders. My Reputation has been earned with years of hard work and dedication not only to my customers my friends too. I don't talk out of my ass, If I don't know I ask, I don't make assumptions I find out the answers. You are an irresponsible person. By the way instead of quoting Motorcyclist magazine what are your credentials on Helmets. Who backs you when dealing with customers to properly size them and make sure that they have the right model, the right fit and the right price? And you are on very dangerous ground to post on this board that I am not qualified to sell helmets.

[a13x]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
As you recall, they check very carefully for a snug fit at VIR. And probably other tracks as well?

Actually at VIR they didn't let me ride in my well fitting backup Arai, because it was 'too old'. I then had to go around and find a helmet to wear, and Daviid was very kind to lend me his extra Vemar. Thank you Daviid.

The Vemar DID NOT fit as well as the Arai and they didn't check either helmet for fit either way. Personally, I felt LESS safe in the Vemar, and it bothered me both days.

But that was Cornerspeed's rule, so I sucked it up and dealt with it.

[s a x m a n]

Originally posted by a13x
Darrell,

For the 1000th time.

The central saftey issue is with a certain TYPE / BUILD of helmet, not a helmet brand.

Reread that. Reread it again.


If you wanted to race in a Arai Openfaced helmet.. you couldn't, because that TYPE of helmet isn't legal. HJC is just one, of a few, various brands that make the TYPE / BUILD of helmet in question.

When you can discern the difference between talking about Brand Names, and actual TYPES, then we can talk. You're blind assumption that this is purely a Arai VS HJC issue is silly. You can easily substitute Arai with Shoei and HJC with Budget Brand XX (who also happens to make the questionable TYPE).


Step back. Strip away faces, money values, brand names, and all that stuff. Look at the test group in question (the last 10 or so head injuries at our one track), look at the evidence, then tell me why this decision is so horrid?

quoting for people to reread this intellegent post

[Honclfibr]

I don't think that's fair, I understand quite well that there are three issues being discussed in this thread. The first is whether polycarbonate shell helmets are demonstrably less safe than composite shell helmets. The second, whether a particular brand can be said to make a safer helmet than another given the same materials and construction (i.e. whether one composite shell helmet is safer than another.) The third, and most recent issue, is whether the SNELL foundation should be considered the foremost authority on helmet safety in this country, or whether there may be some variance in safety among helmets certified to the latest SNELL standard.

Certainly, the first and third issues are intertwined, since there are both polycarbonate and composite shell helmets which are approved by the SNELL M2005 standard. If there is a demonstrable lack of safety in the use of polycarbonate helmets over composite, then it must certainly be true that the SNELL M2005 cert is lacking.

The second issue, whether a particular brand of helmet is better than another given the same construction and a proper fit, is one that was alluded to but not outwardly stated at the rider's meeting. However it is an issue which has been picked up and championed by several people in this thread, so I am addressing it as well.

For the record, I have not seen a single post from Jerry Wood which states exactly which type and/or brand of helmet will be banned from the track, and this was *certainly* not made clear in the riders meeting, so to state that the issue surrounds only whether polycarbonate shell helmets will be banned from the track is premature; it appeared to me that they were considering more than just that.

Originally posted by a13x
Darrell,

For the 1000th time.

The central saftey issue is with a certain TYPE / BUILD of helmet, not a helmet brand.

Reread that. Reread it again.


If you wanted to race in a Arai Openfaced helmet.. you couldn't, because that TYPE of helmet isn't legal. HJC is just one, of a few, various brands that make the TYPE / BUILD of helmet in question.

When you can discern the difference between talking about Brand Names, and actual TYPES, then we can talk. You're blind assumption that this is purely a Arai VS HJC issue is silly. You can easily substitute Arai with Shoei and HJC with Budget Brand XX (who also happens to make the questionable TYPE).


Step back. Strip away faces, money values, brand names, and all that stuff. Look at the test group in question (the last 10 or so head injuries at our one track), look at the evidence, then tell me why this decision is so horrid?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by a13x
The Vemar DID NOT fit as well as the Arai and they didn't check either helmet for fit either way. Personally, I felt LESS safe in the Vemar, and it bothered me both days.

I see, perhaps this is something that varies from tech inspector to tech inspector and is not an official VIR policy. I know that both years I have gone through tech down there, they examined my helmet off my head (for damage, and a date code) and then had me put it back on so they could move the helmet around with my head in it. Maybe only some of the VIR inspectors do it, maybe some inspectors up here at Loudon do it to. Just suggesting that this sort of policy is one that I could clearly see improving helmet safety, and would have no trouble standing behind.

[s a x m a n]

i have not said too much about this whole issue for a couple reasons:

1) I have a shoei x-11, so I pass tech
2) I care about my head and would not even think about spending <$200 on a helmet
3) i'm a LRRS n00b, i just am looking to join the community and create very little waves to start with.

Many of us are new to racing, and really have not much idea on the recent history or events of LRRS. If i had such issue with things, I probably with find another organization to ride with.

that being said, i understand some of the concerns here, but becareful not to burn bridges.

for me, this whole helmet issue seems pretty cut and dry (i walked away from the riders meeting feeling the same way)

don't by a cheap helmet ... spend the money and get something that is of better quality.

i'm not looking to change anyones mind, because in the end, I just care about my safety, and I will make sure I am wearing some of the best equipment I can buy ... i want to be able to go home after a weekend of racing.

[WebCrush]

I've done CCS, WERA, FUSA, and AMA events all over the east coast including VIR with all four sanctioning bodies and have NEVER had to even put the helmet on at tech, let alone check for its fitting.

[a13x]

Read me: http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=25781

Nuff said.



btw: Just for the record, no ill will in all this Darrell, good discussion here. Can't say that enough times on the Interweb, land of no body english or facial expressions.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Feel free not to read or post anything here then. Some of us are trying to have a discussion here, if you're not interested noone is holding a gun to your head. You don't seem to be capable of adding much other than your lips to various peoples' asses so far anyway, so I doubt you will be missed.

Darrell, you can't honestly think that my posts are any less full of shit than 90% of this thread... The only difference between my posts and others is that I don't PRETEND to know what i'm fucking talking about or make false pretenses on a ruling that STILL up untill now hasn't even been finalized.

Just cuz i dont agree w/ you doesn't mean i can't support people i actually do agree with and attempt to lighten up an otherwise miserable fucking thread...