No more HJC helmets at LRRS

[a13x]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Come on Alex, you don't think sponsors expect that their products will be pushed a little? Who do you think paid for that brand new Arai lid Eric Wood is sporting? You and all the other Arai owners, through marked up helmet prices to pay for sponsorships. Sure, Arai has a reputation for being the best. Pay enough sponsorship money out to get half the industry shilling your product, your product can get that reputation too. All paid for by the end user, who rationalizes that his helmet costs twice as much so it must be safer.

Reread what I wrote there Mr. Holigan. I said 'banning helmet brand XX so that Arai sells more'.

Having the top riders at LRRS wearing their helmets, being the sponsor of a premeir racing school, and having the #1 vendor at the track selling their helmets is exactly what Arai / a sponsor wants. Unreasonable and over-the-top tactics (like some people are implying) is more detrimental as opposed to beneficial to a Company. Anyone that's been in the Game long enough knows this (like Jerry W.), that's why I found it so amusing.

Or did you forget what I do for a living?

Paul hit the nails on the head (bad pun?) in his posts. If wearing a tinfoil hat and passing around conspiracy theories makes you feel better, by all means continue.

ps: I already exlained why the shield's cost more.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by a13x
Reread what I wrote there Mr. Holigan. I said 'banning helmet brand XX so that Arai sells more'.

Having the top riders at LRRS wearing their helmets, being the sponsor of a premeir racing school, and having the #1 vendor at the track selling their helmets is exactly what Arai / a sponsor wants. Unreasonable and over-the-top tactics (like some people are implying) is more detrimental as opposed to beneficial to a Company. Anyone that's been in the Game long enough knows this (like Jerry W.), that's why I found it so amusing.

Or did you forget what I do for a living?

Paul hit the nails on the head (bad pun?) in his posts. If wearing a tinfoil hat and passing around conspiracy theories makes you feel better, by all means continue.

ps: I already exlained why the shield's cost more.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I don't believe that this HJC was prompted by some secret meeting where Arai asked LRRS to ban HJC helmets to promote sales. However, I do believe that the statements made to the effect of "you get what you pay for in helmet safety" and the push for riders to replace their HJC helmets with Arais is influenced by the sponsorship. And agian, I don't have a specific problem with LRRS for doing this, but neither do I feel that replacing my AC-10 with an RX7-RR is going to make me safer at the track.

[a13x]

Originally posted by Honclfibr However, I do believe that the statements made to the effect of "you get what you pay for in helmet safety" and the push for riders to replace their HJC helmets with Arais is influenced by the sponsorship. [/B]

I've sat there before and heard Saftey Director Jerry Wood say "buy something better like a Arai or a Shoei".

[TTD]

Wow... that was a lot of posts to go through.

Here's my opinion...

I agree with some of you, but not everything you said.

[HBerry]

Can I still use my shitty cheap HJC at your track days?

[TTD]

Bring that chick in your Avatar and you can wear pantyhose on your head for all I care!

[TTD]

errr... sorry

I meant... TonysTrackDays.com is taking all information under advisement and will rule on this issue at a later date.

Until that time, any DOT or SNELL approved helmet will be allowed.

[gonzo6]

saw that 1 comin...

[TTD]

PS.

I"m an ASS MAN!

[Royb]

"All our racers wear out of the box AC Series including pros like; Ben Spies, Aaron Yates, Jason Pridmore, Nathan Ramsey, Broc Hepler, Nick Wey, Ryan Mills, Matt Buyten,"

From the HJC site............

[a13x]

Originally posted by 35racer
Bring that chick in your Avatar and you can wear pantyhose on your head for all I care!

I'll hold you to that!

[HBerry]

Originally posted by 35racer
errr... sorry

I meant... TonysTrackDays.com is taking all information under advisement and will rule on this issue at a later date.

Until that time, any DOT or SNELL approved helmet will be allowed.

How about if I get my girlfriend to wear those pants? She has a very nice ass too.....

[TTD]

How much is that statement worth without pictures?


C'mon... I know you know the answer?

It starts with N or Z usually...




Nothing, Nada, Zip, Zilch....

[Paul_E_D]

I love how you can diffuse a tense situation Tony! You're STILL the man

[HBerry]

Originally posted by 35racer
How much is that statement worth without pictures?


C'mon... I know you know the answer?

It starts with N or Z usually...




Nothing, Nada, Zip, Zilch....

When I go on my home computer I'll see if I can dig up some!

[gixxer6]

Originally posted by legalspeed
"I'm guess there are a lot more people running HJC's."

People that guess on the race track don't last long.

I really stay away from the threads on this board that appear to be of the "arguing over the internet" type, but I agree with Dan...Get a good fokin lid ladies, and quit arguing over the internet..if you don't like it, just like Paul said...TOUGH, go home...

I've crashed a ton of times, and ANY HJC helmet, including the 2 different high end models I used to have, all had immediate face shield failure, followed by cracking in the shell..followed by my melon hurting...followed by a buncha rocks from T6 shredding my face. My Suomy's have been through an equal number of crashes in the SAME corners...and NEVER once have they had face shield failure, the shells don't crack, and my bean does NOT hurt for the next week after the crash. It's an expensive game to play, and if you can't float the dough for a good lid, sorry, save your penny's till you can.

And Tony, your pantyhose on the head comment was FOKIN HILARIOUS BRO!!!

[a13x]

For all the non-NEAR listers..
---------------

From Jerry on Helmets (long).

Gang,

I am sorry that I could not be at NHIS this weekend. We are moving from Maine to Mass and have discovered that it is harder than it was 17 years ago. The fact that Don did not have a list is MY FAULT, I left it in Maine along with other stuff that I needed. The list is not complete anyway. In fact, many of you are smart and have already figured out what the offending models are, please help identify other Snell approved, cheap plastic helmets.

Here is the deal in a nutshell. As your fearless safety director, one of my jobs is to investigate any crash with a serious injury. I have been doing this for a very long time. The last FIVE (5) riders that had a brain injury were wearing the same type of helmet. None of these crashes were bad, that is, no one hit a wall or was hit by a motorcycle. Some of the crashes were just simple lowsides. The man that slept for several weeks last year had a very simple, low speed, low side, he was wearing the same helmet as Kevin and Mick.

Micky's injury was a concern to all of us, but I already had concerns about Helmets that cost $150 showing up so many times in a row on the life flight list. We could all apply a bit of common sense here. I went into the motorcycle business in 1965 and the man that trained me always said "you get what you pay for, if your lucky" After 41 years in the business I do know many of the folks in the industry. I raced with a major helmet importer in the 60's and consider him a close friend. He informed me that, although the new plastic helmets did pass a Snell test, he would not recommend them for racing. That is in full agreement with my personal study results that the $150 helmets are not doing the job on the racetrack.

I have raced for a long time and have been hurt more than I care to remember. I always used the best helmets and have damaged some of them heavily in violent crashes, but have never had a brain injury. Common sense dictates that we should do something here. We are not going to pick on any particular brand. We have information that plastic helmets do not do the same job as a fiberglass helmet and I think that we should use that information to do our job.

This is not a plot to make any of you spend more money. I am as cheap as any of you. I bought my van in 1994 and still drive a Mustang that I bought in 1986. I would be happy to show any interested party how to buy a good reliable car, cheap, and use the extra money to buy a good helmet. We actually like most of you and don't want to see anyone permanently injured.

Jerry

-------------------

[Allan]

This is Allan Jones from Moto Market responding to all...I want to preface this by saying not all of my comments are the views of Paul Conley and his business Moto Market. I have my own opinions and wish to express them here for your safety concerns...
I have not been around this industry for that long in comparison to Jerry or Don or Tony or even Paul (who's my boss and my friend), but I've been involved enough and seen enough to know this: Arai's are the best. PERIOD ...and to quote them, "There is a difference."
I will not have any data for you. I will not argue with you. I will not add anything else to this thread. I will however tell you a few things. I have traveled to Daytona and viewed the 200 from the Arai suite back when they sponsered it. I have met the two most important people from Arai of North America...They actually know who we(Moto Market) are...I actually have Brian Westin's (he is the head of Arai North America) cell phone number...I am in touch with Kathy, the Arai technical specialist in PA, on a regular basis for parts and to have questions answered...so yes I'm name dropping, but I just want everyone to believe me when I say that there is NO WAY Arai had anything to do with this. Arai is way above such tactics...to even suggest it is idiotic. And to say Penguin will benefit is idiotic also as they don't sell helmets. We at Moto Market do and we know there is a difference. I have been to the dealer shows in Indy and tried on every helmet offered to the American public and I can honestly say, NOTHING fits like an Arai...and in the end, it is the fit that saves your brain! ...so I will keep it short and somewhat sweet...
Regarding fit and the ALL-IMPORTANT price (but come on guys, stop being cheap! - it's your brain!!...as far as I know, they are not transplanting or cloning brains yet...), come and see me at either the track in Garage 10 (near tech) or at the store in Acton, MA. I can fit most people into an Arai Astral-X model (which is their generic intermediate oval SHAPE - NOT CONSTRUCTION or SIZE, BUT SHAPE!!!! - and I have way more knowledge than that on their helmets - contact me) for FAR LESS than $400!! Due to this issue arising, we at Moto Market are starting a Racing Program and offering a discount to liscensed road-racers. The Astral-X model delivered to road-racers in tax-free NH is around $325-$350 if one chooses white or black and hardly any more for Aluminum Silver.
Regarding the "You get what you pay for" theme, it's true: We have an analogy we like to use at Moto Market: "If you were parachuting, would you buy a cheap parachute or the best you can buy!?!?" Arai helmets are the best in the world. They do not all cost $600. Safety is the same in all of their models. Yes, the lighter, more aerodynamic, more ventilated models with a lower center of gravity and a nicer wicking interior can cost $600 or more with a replica paint job, BUT you can get the SAME SAFETY with their $400 Astral-X model...it just does not have all of the features that the others do. IF you do not fit into that model, there are 3 OTHER SHAPES!!! that I can work with in their line-up to fit you! Beyond shape, we can change the cheek pads (thicknesses range from 12 to 40 mm) AND headliners (thicknesses range from 5 to 12 mm) in those models to CUSTOM FIT the helmet to YOU!!!...which makes it the safest helmet for YOU!!
Stop making this out to be witch hunt! They only want fewer injuries! Safety is the concern here, NOT MONEY! I have many friends in the paddock and I want all of them wearing Arai helmets. Years ago, I of course started with my girlfriend, Lisa #196...and then my good friend Ilya #760...and after watching the "Young Gun" Shane Narbone #164 quickly drop his lap times last year in an HJC, I had to sponser him for his SAFETY because I like the kid!!!...and I now have succeeded in convincing Paul to allow me to start a Racing Program so that ALL can be SAFE...come see us in Garage 10!!!

Thank you for your time...
Allan Jones

P.S. Regarding Ben Spies, if he goes to MotoGP, do you think he'll be wearing an HJC?!?!?!? I doubt it...it took Nicky one year before ditching Joe Rocket. I bet he was laughed at in the paddock...
Also, take a count of how many MotoGp riders wear Arais and Nolans... Other than the Schuberth brand for their Concept model, those are the only two helmet brands we carry at Moto Market...

[OreoGaborio]

two awesome posts... Alex, thanks for posting that up for those that aren't on the NEAR list... Alan, thanks for taking the time to write a well thought out response

[daviid]

Originally posted by HBerry
I don't think it is that stupid. If I crash next race weekend, I'm out 120 bucks on a helmet. However now that I have to buy a SHOEI or ARAI, if I crash next race weekend I'm out $350 bucks on a helmet. If I crash 3 times, I have spent more on helmets than on a bike!

if i chrash once with any of my helmets ive spent more on helmets then on 2 of my bike

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by daviid
if i chrash once with any of my helmets ive spent more on helmets then on 2 of my bike

well yah, but that's cuz you actually paid money for your helmets instead of sucking dick

[Hardcore]

thanks Allan!

I guess I don't count because I'm only a novice but my accident wasn't investigated last year.
Shit, I was in a fuckin coma, mighta only been for 15-20 minutes or so, but my fuckin brain was bleeding! I still can't remember what happened!
oh,+ ya I was wearing an HJC helmet! it fit good + was only $120.
so ya, you do get what ya pay for!
the only thing banning these helmets will do is save someones life!
I've always worn Arais in the past + learned the hard way to go back to them! I now wear an Arai again + will from hear on!

if anyone has an HJC + values their life, don't street or track ride with it!

[daviid]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
well yah, but that's cuz you actually paid money for your helmets instead of sucking dick

so you're saying you sucked dick for your helmets?


edited for the grammer nazi

[Karaya One]

Very nice post, Allan!

I'm on my third Arai. Still the best helmets out there.

[Paul_E_D]

Hardcore, I'm betting you're accident was one of the 10 injuries prompting the action. They don't "investigate" per se, they do record the data though.

Allen, Thanks for posting something rationale.