Lap timer

[MaRce1o]

Anyone ever use this?

http://www.gps-laptimer.de/Home.html

[Ductard]

Whoa, just saw that it's 20 bucks.

Not sure I'd pay that much for a lap timer app.

I got "Track Day for iPhone" for 5 bucks, their Pro version is closer to $20 I think, which gets you more tracks or the ability to "learn" them (or you can buy tracks one by one for 2 or 3 bucks).

Before I continue, I'd say to try Pirelli's free "Diablo Superbiker" app before you buy anything. I only found out about it after I paid for mine and I tried to run them both to compare, but Pirelli's app doesn't seem to run in the background (whereas I can do whatever I want while "track day" runs in the background. Pirelli's app is supposed to give you neat things like lean angle if you mount it in a fixed spot, but I usually just stick my phone in a pocket on my leathers.

I've only used mine at NYST (included in the $5 version, if I recall). It works pretty well, even though my cell service doesn't have stellar coverage up there.

Maybe 1 out of every 3 sessions, a couple of laps are garbage (gps loses signal so the phone doesn't see where you crossed start/finish, or you appear to go a quarter mile off track then zoom back with a top speed of 150+)

I'd imagine that any of the lap timer apps have similar problems.

Lately I've been turning on the app and sticking it in my pocket first thing when I start getting ready for a session - seems to give the GPS time to get a really strong lock and I don't have issues too often anymore.

Here is one of the more accurate sessions I've recorded.

[Tas]

Ductard, which phone do you have? The only review said it doesn't work on iPhone 4s and that's my phone.

I'm looking for something like this. Can't seem to get or find the Diablo superbike app in iTunes. Still searching though.

[Ductard]

Ductard, which phone do you have? The only review said it doesn't work on iPhone 4s and that's my phone.

I'm looking for something like this. Can't seem to get or find the Diablo superbike app in iTunes. Still searching though.

Re: Pirelli - See if this works:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/diab...451756374?mt=8

Re: Track Day for iphone -
I have an iphone 5s. If you're talking about the review by "Dave Markert" I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in it. He says "GPS isn't accurate enough" so he might have just been using it at a track that doesn't have good enough coverage. It's your call but if you can't find anything else, ultimately it's a $5 gamble....

Doesn't work with iPhone4s

by Dave Markert
Gps isn't accurate enough

[kumpy]

Hey I got a QStars 6000 GPS lap timer that I'm looking to sell, just haven't had the time to post it up. Let me know if you're interested. kumpy 617-257-1845

[xsiliconkid]

GPS for timing (and scoring).

There are a number of errors that creep into GPS timing...important if you are looking for millisecond accuracy ( can’t afford to be 10cm – 1m inaccurate as you cross the start finish line as compared to others.)
Some errors can be mitigated and some can't. Errors come from inherent satellite data, some from the atmosphere; some from the path of the signal.
This is why GPS is difficult to be used for timing and scoring where it is all about the "time" when passing a particular geographical point (e.g., start/finish) in comparison to other riders (a requirement for scoring).

The following is a gross simplification but serves to show a key issue.
One of the largest errors that is difficult (and quite expensive) to remove is multipath....
Multipath is where the signal from the satellite at one instant is a direct path from satellite to receiver and the next sampled signal is received bounced off some terrestrial object. The added signal path time causes errors in positioning (receiver has no knowledge which is direct vs. bounced signal).
Multipath can be eliminated (very expensive) but it takes diversity antennas (2 or more) plus base stations nearby and smart s/w. Not sure an antenna array on helmet is the way to go….

GPS data loggers like the Qstar do a reasonable job to eliminate a number of erroneous (multipath) errors by interpolation of signals, throwing out the obvious wrong position signals as compared to the ones before and after…. if you are starting to pay close attention to particular spots on the track (braking/acceleration point) as compared to before and after laps.... there is a judgment call, "did I actually brake earlier or later or was it a multipath error" -(could be an error of centimeters or meters. Better than nothing but not foolproof. However, nowhere good enough to time/score racing.

[Gecko]

GPS for timing . . . . There are a number of errors that creep into GPS timing . . . bla, bla, bla . . . . This is why GPS is difficult to be used for timing . . . where it is all about the "time" when passing a particular geographical point (e.g., start/finish) . . . bla, bla, bla . . . . One of the largest errors that is difficult (and quite expensive) to remove is multipath . . . bla, bla, bla . . . . GPS data loggers like the Qstar . . . bla, bla, bla . . . [are] [b]etter than nothing but . . . nowhere good enough to time . . . .

I suppose the next thing you're going to tell us is that GPS data loggers won't automatically shave 2 seconds off our lap times....
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[Jim]

you guys are absolutely insane for using your cell phone for a lap timer when riding. i heard of a track day recently where the CR said there were like 2 broken/lost cell phones & it blew my mind that someone would actually think it's a good idea to use their phone.

[tsorfas]

I am with Jim on this one actually. Wow

[jasnmar]

I've used http://www.racechrono.com/ fairly successfully. It even has a track map with traps set up for NHMS.

Free, but a bit hard to use.

Inaccuracies as Graham suggest are problematic, but at my (lack of) speed aren't that big of a deal.

As to using my phone... I have a couple old android devices sitting around that I'm not doing anything with anyway. Might as well hurl them down the track as let them sit in a drawer .

[xsiliconkid]

Don't get me wrong - the Qstarz data logger is a very useful tool.....

ps In the past I have picked up two busted Iphones in T6.....that riders had stuffed in their leathers.

[MarkMarine]

The quality of that GPS data posted is kind of garbage. From the starlane (and I'm sure the qstars) you can see your precise line through the track. This helps, a rough estimation of where you are (am I on the asphalt or the grass?)... I'm not sure that does anything for you.

The $100 for a qstars looks cheap after you break a $700 iphone.

Starlane data is pretty precise, here is a screen cap of one of my slow laps (so you other AM SV riders will know how I run a 1:25, and you guys ain't getting the good 1:21 data )


You can see the color changes between dark yellow and light yellow as I get on the brakes or the gas. This helps out a ton, because I THINK I brake for 1 at the flag station, but really I'm braking way out at the 2 board. Not good.

[Gecko]

Don't get me wrong - the Qstarz data logger is a very useful tool.....

It helps stop the wind from blowing the daily race schedule off the workbenches?

[nhbubba]

The $100 for a qstars...

Where are these at?

[Tas]

Re: Pirelli - See if this works:
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/diab...451756374?mt=8

Re: Track Day for iphone -
I have an iphone 5s. If you're talking about the review by "Dave Markert" I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in it. He says "GPS isn't accurate enough" so he might have just been using it at a track that doesn't have good enough coverage. It's your call but if you can't find anything else, ultimately it's a $5 gamble....

The diablo superbike just isn't working. I'll probably end up trying the track day for iPhone app. $5 shouldn't break me.

I don't have a lap top and as soon as the qstarz makes it ipad compatible I don't see myself using it, yet.

[Jim]

It helps stop the wind from blowing the daily race schedule off the workbenches?

painters tape also fixes that

[butcher bergs]

you guys are absolutely insane for using your cell phone for a lap timer when riding. i heard of a track day recently where the CR said there were like 2 broken/lost cell phones & it blew my mind that someone would actually think it's a good idea to use their phone.

Facebook updates need to happen at all times!

[Ductard]

you guys are absolutely insane for using your cell phone for a lap timer when riding. i heard of a track day recently where the CR said there were like 2 broken/lost cell phones & it blew my mind that someone would actually think it's a good idea to use their phone.

So let me get this straight.....pretty much everybody on here pays $100's to a thousand for a shiny helmet (good for racing a MAX of 5 years), $100's to a grand or two for leathers, gloves, boots....$300 or so for tires (that last ~4-8 days), and a couple grand for a bike......any of which can get totally destroyed by a wrist muscle spasm in the wrong place (not to mention risk of bodily injury or spending a guaranteed $100-200 for track time + gas, etc....

....and I'm "absolutely insane" for taking my cell phone with me on the track? That same cell phone that I pay $4.95 a month for damage replacement?

ps In the past I have picked up two busted Iphones in T6.....that riders had stuffed in their leathers.

That's why T6 is banked - so the phones all funnel to the same place for ease of collection.

Seriously tho...maybe I'm deluding myself, but on top of the damage replacement, I keep my phone in a zippered pocket in the padded chest area of my leathers, I turn the rubber case around so that it covers the screen, and face it glass side out (to minimize the chance of glass pointed towards me in the event of a crash). The gorilla glass screens on the iphone 5's are pretty solid. I figure that if I hit hard enough to destroy the phone I'd be more concerned about the broken ribs, etc. that I'm likely to have....

Not sure how guys were securing their phones that had them pop out in T6...or where they popped out from...

The quality of that GPS data posted is kind of garbage.

No argument there, but the price is right. It's one step better than using my go-pro footage to figure out my lap times.

I've considered getting a GPS lap timer, but what are people using? The only ones I've seen are $400 - and I can't even find any used on ebay..

[MarkMarine]

So let me get this straight.....pretty much everybody on here pays $100's to a thousand for a shiny helmet (good for racing a MAX of 5 years), $100's to a grand or two for leathers, gloves, boots....$300 or so for tires (that last ~4-8 days), and a couple grand for a bike......any of which can get totally destroyed by a wrist muscle spasm in the wrong place (not to mention risk of bodily injury or spending a guaranteed $100-200 for track time + gas, etc....

....and I'm "absolutely insane" for taking my cell phone with me on the track? That same cell phone that I pay $4.95 a month for damage replacement?




That's why T6 is banked - so the phones all funnel to the same place for ease of collection.

Seriously tho...maybe I'm deluding myself, but on top of the damage replacement, I keep my phone in a zippered pocket in the padded chest area of my leathers, I turn the rubber case around so that it covers the screen, and face it glass side out (to minimize the chance of glass pointed towards me in the event of a crash). The gorilla glass screens on the iphone 5's are pretty solid. I figure that if I hit hard enough to destroy the phone I'd be more concerned about the broken ribs, etc. that I'm likely to have....

Not sure how guys were securing their phones that had them pop out in T6...or where they popped out from...



No argument there, but the price is right. It's one step better than using my go-pro footage to figure out my lap times.

I've considered getting a GPS lap timer, but what are people using? The only ones I've seen are $400 - and I can't even find any used on ebay..

Qstars is like $75

[Ductard]

Qstars is like $75

What model do people use?
Qstarz BT-Q818XT ?


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&....1.QK3rkqAjCLE

[MarkMarine]

I've seen a lot of these. http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%2...-Q1000EX-F.htm

I use the starlane, which I like but it isn't without it's minuses, like the cost.

[nhbubba]

Qstars is like $75

The less expensive Qstarz devices do not log. They are simply bluetooth gps receivers. You need something to log the data.. like a smart-phone.. if you use one of those.

IIRC the BT-Q1000eX is the least expensive of their offerings that actually logs. It MSRP's at like $200.

There are some 3rd party knock offs available. Especially in Europe and of course Asia. The question is how reliable are they? In my experience with these devices, they can sometimes be very finicky about power, SD cards, and satellite signal strength.

I tried to build my own this spring and found out about the challenges first hand.

[MarkMarine]

The less expensive Qstarz devices do not log. They are simply bluetooth gps devices. You need something to log the data.. like a smart-phone.. if you use one of those.

IIRC the BT-Q1000eX is the least expensive of their offerings that actually logs.

There are some 3rd party knock offs available. Especially in Europe and of course Asia. The question is how reliable are they? In my experience with these devices, they can sometimes be very finicky about power, SD cards, and satellite signal strength.

I tried to build my own this spring and found out about the challenges first hand.

Fair enough, I've never used the qstars, so I'm not familiar with the product line, but I was just trying to aim the OP in that direction instead of using an iphone, cause that's an expensive crash if it breaks. Thanks for clarifying.

[Gecko]

Don't get me wrong - the Qstarz data logger is a very useful tool.....

It helps stop the wind from blowing the daily race schedule off the workbenches?

painters tape also fixes that

But why do that, when you can be styling with a Qstarz data logger? I'm with Ductard, you're spending many thousands of dollars on attire and equipment with a very short life expectancy (and an even shorter life span for some individuals ), what's another couple hundred bucks when you're bleeding cash already, right? Painters tape seems just so ... tacky.

[nhbubba]

Used smart phones are often way cheaper than anything QStarz offers. Seems that "$4.95/month" insured phones are cheaper too.
I don't understand why anyone would be mortified seeing a smart phone on a bike like this. It's just another fuckin' piece of equipment, no different. $400 lt-q6000 or a $400 iphone5. $200 bt-1000ex or a $50 'droid off of fleabay.. what's the difference.

Now the idea that some of you jackwipes aren't properly securing your shit and littering my track with it is annoying. Stop doing that.


All this said, my 'timing device' is a video camera. I mark the frame where I cross the S/F on each lap and do the math. For my slow-ass pace it's more than good 'nuf.

Still want me a QStarz though.