Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TrackRat
The horsepower difference is big. 65-70 hp on the SV vs. 100+ on the 600's. Having gone through a similar progression with cars, I think of the SV as a Miata. It's underpowered, and until you figure it out, you'll be getting buzzed by every car(bike) out on the track that has twice the hp as you. But, if you use it to learn the limits, and figure out how to really go fast on it, you'll be able to be truly fast, as hp won't be covering your mistakes.
I started on the SV and ran a Miata for a while. Getting a point by from an M5 in the Miata, and passing my brother on his 848 Ducati were high points of both of my track careers.
-Jon
Maybe I'm narcissistic, but I always thought your SV passing me on my 1199 was the single highlight of your track career....:kix:
To the OP - not sure if this has been said and I missed it - but RE: tire warmers, you don't even really NEED to worry about those until you get up to race tires. There are Good street tires (Q3's, Diablo Supercorsa SP's) << Track day tires (Diablo Superbike Pro's, etc.) << Race tires (Diablo Superbikes, GP-A's, Supercorsa SC's) (track day and race tires can be a DOT tread pattern, or they can be slicks...the compound is the important part).
Race tires are like hockey pucks until they warm up, and they get these nasty little things called cold tears if you ride them too hard before they're warmed up.
Note - this is coming from a guy that used to run warmers on Supercorsa SP's (i.e. street tires). Absolutely, totally, (maybe even comically) unnecessary, but a friend sold me some for like $100 bucks after my third track day and it gave me some piece of mind.
Now to talk out of both sides of my mouth - while you don't NEED to worry about warmers until you're on race tires, and you're racing into T1 (Trackrat was running race compound tires last time I was with him at NYST and he was killing it after a lap or so), I tended to run them as a track day rider because if you're riding 15 minute sessions, and you have to take 1-2 laps at a pace where you may not be having as much fun / learning as much, well then that's 2-4 minutes of your time (or 15-25% of your precious track time). The same argument holds if you agree that you should't run at full pace on your first lap on a track day anyways. In that case, you're running at 75% (if, as nhbubba said, you can tell what 75% is), but your risk of tire slippage is the same as if you were running at, say, 90% of full pace. So even if you don't go hard out of the gate, warmers can give you a margin of safety on the first lap.
I'd put in a couple days though before I thought about making any kind of unnecessary investment like that though. Spend that first lap or two going slow and really, really focusing on body position and nailing the line (focus on these two things never, ever completely goes away - even Marquez has to work on scrubbing the paint off of different parts of his leather's shoulders :giggity1:). Costs escalate quickly, so if you do decide to get out early no reason to have invested a bunch of money.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nhbubba
Does anyone race without warmers? Is the consensus that they are fuggin' nuts? Even that doode (Brady?) that rode in and raced his plated machine ran warmers, no?
I have.
If you're used to having them, the first lap or so is super sketchy.
If you're used to NOT having them it's no different than a track day w/o warmers.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
I once found out my front warmer wasn't working just before going out for a race. almost lost the front in T3 on the warm up lap. I was gridded near the back so I said fuck it and didn't even put up a fight into T1 cause I didn't want to get in the middle of everyone and crash taking people out.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
A guy named Dangerous Dan looking to do track days? That sounds like a horrible idea.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
lol whatever happened to dangerous dan k?
And re: warmers, once you've used them, you don't really wanna not use them. Super nice to just not have to ever think about if your tires are ready or not. I would say anyone RACING without tire warmers is just plain crazy. Not to mention if they take someone out in turn 1, lap 1, that's a dick move.
Also depending on tire brand, some manufacturers recommend one long heat cycle over the course of the day instead of the heat up, ride, col down, heat up, ride, cool down, etc. So for a TD I would use warmers (maybe just on warm) in between sessions and just keep the tires on one long cycle rather than heat cycle them 8 times in a day.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CEO
lol whatever happened to dangerous dan k?
I'm still around. Had to pick between this place and racing for a bit, chose my place. PTwin cancelled was another hurdle. I hope to be back in a few years to try again. You may see me well before then riding dirty/ice. Don't be surprised if an EX500 "ex-racebike" "trackday bike" and an older FMX/MX set up KX125 (1999) shows up for trade/sale in the next few months ;)
Subject at hand: I ate it hard no warmers on a stupid mistake a few years ago. I was fine but I embarassed myself and wrecked a transmission, which ended up meaning building a new bike due to the timeframe. It was rider error, but it also wouldn't have happened with warmers. While I blame myself for the off, I still run warmers now every time as added insurance just in case. Maaaan, I gotta stop posting here. You guys are making me miss this something fierce!
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Hey, I was just thinking about you this weekend Dan, wondering if you are going to show your ugly face at Loudon again. I was expecting to have many more battles with you!
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
If all I'm looking to do is run track days, how much of a disservice am I doing to myself by not getting an SV?
There's a '97 GSX-R 600 for sale on CL for what seems like a song to me and it's prepped for the track & it includes a bunch of spares. It's $1500 (piss off, you vultures) so I'm wondering how i if it's as good as an SV for what I would want to do with it.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
number9
If all I'm looking to do is run track days...
:lol:
Have we mentioned chips ninjer 650 yet? That's probably the deal of the century right now. Spares. Rains. All the crap you're going to want eventually for (way) less than it will cost you to collect yourself. The more I see of the EX650, the more I like it.
LRRS LW friendly too. Should you ever decide to do more than just track days.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nhbubba
:lol:
Have we mentioned chips ninjer 650 yet? That's probably the deal of the century right now. Spares. Rains. All the crap you're going to want eventually for (way) less than it will cost you to collect yourself. The more I see of the EX650, the more I like it.
LRRS LW friendly too. Should you ever decide to do more than just track days.
It's too expensive :( I'm really trying to limit the up-front cost as much as possible. Yeah, I realize that on-going costs are going to be more than the bike's price in the long run, but that's the only way I can sell it to the Minister for War & Finance
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
How many times does one rent skis before they buy a set?
The answer is certainly different for everyone, but a track bike is almost no different. Almost.
I really want to say that as a guy who's spent more than necessary to come back to the same point, and not as a dude with a bike on the block.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
I'd take an SV over an old 600 any day. Tons more fun, easier on tires.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheIglu
I'd take an SV over an old 600 any day. Tons more fun, easier on tires.
Why are they more fun? Not being critical, I'm genuinely asking.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Simpler bike. Very narrow at the waist and easy to chuck around. The geometry of the SV is very, very easy to ride. Torque >>> horsepower.
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
Re: Looking to get started with track days this summer
number9 - IMO, you will ultimately need to identify your tastes before anything.
For me, I've tracked/ raced a variety of machines and have always come back to enjoying a MW bike the most. Personally I did not find a v-twin easy to ride overall since all of my riding experience was based around inline 4's. I suggest you consider details like those as you look into purchasing a track machine.