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Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

  1. #1
    Resident N00b RocketPunch's Avatar
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    Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    The specific item I am referring to is highlighted in bold below base on the 2016 LRRS rule book section 7.1.2:

    "7.1.2 The helmet must meet DOT plus Snell (USA)
    approval
    or the British Blue Label standard BSI
    6658 Type A helmet standard or the European
    ECE22-04 & ECE22-05 P standard. The
    appropriate stickers must be attached."

    This means you can legally race in a helmet with ECE ONLY certificaton, but you cannot race in a helmet that is Snell ONLY because any Snell approved helmet also requires DOT certification. What is interesting to me is CCS/ASRA does not have that requirement under section 5.1.1 of their 2016 rule book, which reads:

    "5.1.1 Undamaged full-face helmet with face shield and bearing a stamp of
    approval from one of the following international standards:
    Snell M2010 or M2015(USA)
    BS. 6658 TYPE. A (GREAT - BRITAIN)
    ECE 22 - 04 & ECE 22 - 05 “P” (EUROPE)
    JIS 8133:2000 / JIS 8133:2007 (JAPAN)
    All these listed standards will remain valid as long as the
    rider can prove a date of manufacture within the last 5 years"

    In addition, similar regional racing organization such as WERA or national racing organization such as Moto America also do not have the "must meet DOT plus Snell" requirement, which as far as I can tell is an extremely uncommon requirement. In addition, Japan's JIS T8133 also meets and is legal in CCS/ASRA and MotoAmerica.

    Obviously I have no knowledge of the intention behind the requirement nor how certain rule come to be. May be LRRS can consider it as a suggestion to adopt the the CCS/ASRA helmet standard in 2017, by excluding the DOT requirement and may be add JIS certification to the mix.

    Thank you.

    Reference:
    http://www.nhms.com/documents/2016_lrrs_rulebook.pdf
    http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2016/r...book%20std.pdf
    WERA Motorcyle Road Racing :: Rulebook :: v2016n10x10 ::
    http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Desk...1&documentid=3

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    Lifer lrrs313's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Is it possible to purchase a helmet that is Snell certified and NOT DOT certified? I thought a helmet had to be DOT certified to be sold in the US

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by lrrs313 View Post
    Is it possible to purchase a helmet that is Snell certified and NOT DOT certified? I thought a helmet had to be DOT certified to be sold in the US
    Given that DOT is based on self testing with no external verification, I can't imagine why you WOULDN'T throw a DOT label on if selling in the US. I can't claim to have ever seen a non DOT SNELL on the shelves in Maine.

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  4. #4

    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    I don't think that's a new rule?

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    Posting Freak Philkinson's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Can we also discuss why carbon helmets aren't allowed?

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    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    So, rereading, I think the intent is all helmets must be DOT, PLUS one of the following:
    SNELL
    BSI 6658 Type A
    ECE22-04
    ECE22-05 P

    Carbon fiber helmets ARE allowed, the only shell material outlawed is polycarbonate, and that is based on LRRS observations of post crash head issues and helmet types.

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  7. #7
    Resident N00b RocketPunch's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    So, rereading, I think the intent is all helmets must be DOT, PLUS one of the following:
    SNELL
    BSI 6658 Type A
    ECE22-04
    ECE22-05 P
    I can see your interpretation, and probably is the intended interpretation. The way you wrote it would be much more clear than what is in the 2016 rulebook; Which to me is open to interpretation the way it is written now.

    Yet again, I would argue why do we need DOT approval when pretty much no one requires it? How would having a DOT sticker "improve" the safety of riders when all the mentioned safety standards ALONE already exceeds it?

    I just wanted to point out, in case it is being misinterpreted, my intention is not trying to create work for anyone nor to "reinvent the wheel".

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  8. #8

    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philkinson View Post
    Can we also discuss why carbon helmets aren't allowed?
    that statement is incorrect

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  9. #9
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    I don't think that's a new rule?
    I don't either, but I could be misremembering.

    I think that there has been this discrepancy between LRRS and CCS for a few years now.

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  10. #10
    Posting Freak Philkinson's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsorfas View Post
    that statement is incorrect
    Polycarbonate isn't carbon fiber? Welp, research time for me

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

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  11. #11
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philkinson View Post
    Polycarbonate isn't carbon fiber? Welp, research time for me
    No. Very different.

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  12. #12

    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    truth is your probably dont want to wear a non DOT SNELL Helmet anyways

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  13. #13
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    If one is sold for use specifically outside the US (Europe or Asia probably) that is Snell certified, there would be no reason to get a US DOT certification (or to even test it). I suspect that this would be a small number of actual helmets, but possible.

    Those "skull cap" type helmets can even have a dot certification. It's pretty "minimal" as certifications go.

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  14. #14
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Those "skull cap" type helmets can even have a dot certification. It's pretty "minimal" as certifications go.
    They likely never bothered with testing, just slapped the sticker on there. That's why I personally won't wear a DOT only helmet even if not racing.

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  15. #15
    #331 CBR929RE's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philkinson View Post
    Polycarbonate isn't carbon fiber? Welp, research time for me

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
    polycarbonate is plastic. definitely nothing like carbon fiber which is a 2 part composite material (carbon fiber material and resin).

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  16. #16
    Animal Hill Super Motard Champion Johnny B's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    I think that there has been this discrepancy between LRRS and CCS for a few years now.
    There are a few areas where LRRS and CCS differ, most notably we don't allow coolant additives with propylene glycol but CCS does.
    We tend to go with what WERA (Definitely not a "regional" organization) does for a few safety related items.

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  17. #17
    Satans Donkey Uncle Snake's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?


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  18. #18
    Animal Hill Super Motard Champion Johnny B's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Snake View Post
    Yes. A plain moron would hand letter the helmet himself.

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  19. #19
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Will LRRS adopt the CCS/ASRA helmet requirement in 2017?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philkinson View Post
    Polycarbonate isn't carbon fiber? Welp, research time for me

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
    "Polycarbonate" is a fancy word that loosely translates to "shit plastic that's used to make disposable forks, spoons and knives"

    Translated literally:

    "Poly" meaning "Many",
    "Carbon" meaning "Carbonara" and
    "Ate" meaning.... "consumed".

    So "many things with which to eat spaghetti carbonara".

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 10-17-16 at 03:56 PM.
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