LRRS championships clinched?

[13]

SO, am I or am I not allowed to be proud and smile about what I accomplished?
Maybe it's nothing, maybe I didn't accomplish anything. Maybe I should just mope around and feel like shit because I haven't been racing at Loudon for ten years and can't pull a 1:15 laptime. I've been racing there for two years and I think I'm doing pretty well, if you don't want the LRRS to have to recognise that, then fine. It won't get me a #1 plate, but out of the people I was up against in my class I won.

I'll be an Expert next year, and I'll no doubt be handed my ass on many occasions. I've accepted that. I just wanted to post a thread asking who clinched championships.

I guess I should have worded it differently. But "LRRS championships/amateur achievement awards clinched?" just didn't have the ring I was looking for.

[s a x m a n]

I am in the camp that you haven't won the championship until you are an expert (which probably will never happen for me as well ... 11s and 12s ... come on now).

LRRS is the organization which we play in, the top level is expert, everything else is just stepping stones to that level. All the classes (MWSS, LWSM, 125GP, etc, are classes which exist through out LRRS, so there is only one person that is the best of a LRRS class, and that happens to be in the expert level. If you want to be number 1, you have to beat the best, which are the experts.

There is no reason to stay in the lower classes if you are wining races consistently. its time to move up and play with the big boys (and girls). If I start winning AM races, I will bump up, because then I've learned everything I can in AM, and its time to be schooled by the fast guys in EX .. its not fair to the AMs who are trying hard, but miss out on contengecy money, or the good feeling of a trophy because some AM who is running EX competitive times is just walking away with the wins every weekend.

I don't need to win a championship to make myself feel like I accomplished something. I don't have the money or time that Greenwood, Jeff Wood, Shane Narbone, etc; have ... I'll probably never get down to the 11s and 12s, but if I race the best that I can and push myself each weekend then thats a victory for me. I'll bump up to EX sooner than later because I always want to learn more, and the way you do that is being with people that are better than you. That goes for anything in life ... not just racing at LRRS.

I probably wouldn't stick around in AM long enough to win in a class, but if I did I would be proud of my accomplishment, but I would still know that I was 2nd to the EXs and it was time to learn from them. Its an accomplishment sure, but it doesn't deserve the recognition of the class winner ... thats reserved for the experts ... they are faster then us.

[s a x m a n]

and about the 13 race requirement to move up ... if you are winning races alot as an AM, they will let you bump before 13 races (ask Ryan Nicholson). I applaud him for moving up after he started to run EX times ... he has learned more, and he has allowed some of us to have better finishes so that we can join the EX ranks someday.

The NVs running in the teens ... lame ... AMs running 16s ... lame ... move your asses up to the next level and learn something ...

[13]

And to think I'm getting treated like this while running 21's!

[a13x]

I disagree with basically everything Saxman said.


Am I'm a fast Amateur / fastish Expert.

[Puppet]

Damn right you can be proud of it. You worked your ass off to be the best at the level at which you had to ride this year. All while knowing that as you became eligible, you'd be bumping up, and getting your ass handed to you. Congrats Chris and Oxx! (And for Oxx running one race and one day of practice per weekend.) Also congrats to Gerard for taking a true #1 plate!

To Jamie: for the record...I was told "NO", I couldn't bump to AM before I had 10 races. Even though I was winning races in Novice and running times that were competitive with AM's. There is some leeway going AM to EX, but not NV to AM

[Kitt]

There is some leeway going AM to EX, but not NV to AM

I've seen it happen... who did you ask?

Also... a champion is a champion... im sure the amature guys don't say "I was the champion of the track.

I was on a championship winning Div. 2 hockey team... we were the champs... Just because we weren't Div 1, and beating the Div. 1 champs, doesn't mean we had the best season of Div 2 teams.

Edit: I think what LRRS is worried about, is recognizing AM champions may encourage people to hang back for the glory when they should be running Experts... I think they should be more strict about moving people up.

[Pittenger5]

Well if thats the case, that theyre afraid of people hanging back, why cant they force the champions in the lower levels to bump? That way you get one year as a champion, but next year you have to bump up to the next level.

[OreoGaborio]

Well if thats the case, that theyre afraid of people hanging back, why cant they force the champions in the lower levels to bump? That way you get one year as a champion, but next year you have to bump up to the next level.

That's already the case.

[Pittenger5]

I am so smart! S-M-R-T smart. D'oh!

[Puppet]

I've seen it happen... who did you ask?

I emailed Don after the August weekend. According to the list that was put out I had 8 races and a 0.8something or other index. Was told that I needed the ten races. Got them last weekend 'shrug'.

[Doc]

You got Don's email addy?

[RyanNicholson]

i was planning on kinda staying out of this topic after reading it on the NEAR list (since its a lot of experts ragging on am's) but since it came up here I'll chime in. I agree with both sides. I dont think theres any problem calling someone an "amateur champion" and forcing them up to expert the following year. I dont think they should let people run #1 plates (or if they do, i can't imagine anybody actually bothering, i wouldn't). If you're an AM champion at the end of the season, you'll be an expert the next season....which means you can't run the damn #1 plate anyway....so that isn't an issue. (i just bring that up cuz thats what the convo on the NEAR list is revolving around).

As far as moving up and stuff, I agree with sax....if you're running times and have the experience to safely run in the class above your current level....do it. I bumped up from NV to AM after winning 3 races in 1 day by like 20 seconds each in May....then bumped from AM to EX to really see what I could do in August. I wasn't interested in an AM championship personally, even though I had a good chance. I'm proud to be an expert, and i'm excited about a long uphill climb ahead of me to the top.

They have the leeway from AM to EX for certain people because by then you've at least got a decent number of races under your belt and if don feels you'll be safe as an EX then there isn't an issue. the only reason i could imagine there isn't necessarily that leeway going from NV to AM is due to lack of races and experience (this is overall, i know many people would be safe) but if you've only got 8 races thats a big experience difference than an AM thats got many more. (no offense brian...i know you'd be fine as an AM...i just imagine this is how they look at it).

Like the people that compared it to baseball champs at different levels, thats why i dont have any issues w/ there being an AM champion for each class. I just think that only the top experts should run a #1 plate.

I DO think it's kind of a shame that alot of the experts see AM and NV guys as nobody's. Thats just childish to use racing level as a social status. Having three licensing tiers is great, its an awesome way to allow people to progress and achieve something as they get faster and work their way up. There are probably a number of people that will spend their entire career as a NV or AM and be happy with where they are in their correct level. I dont think it should be "go away and talk to me when your an expert like a real man"....thats retarded. As far as being a "somebody" at the track, i think its more about your personality and involvement in the community up there...getting to know people and helping out and stuff. (again, this was brought up on NEAR...which is why i mention it).

[Doc]

Good point with the AM plate... Your automatically bumped so you can't display it anyway, you just don't get the chance to defend your title.

I think Oxx was looking to do it for one race, since he has clinched it. I thought it would be funny and kinda "neat" but I see the points the experts make.
(I am not about to try and run a #1 as a novice IF i win any kinda "championship" and YES I know there is nothing like that in novice but I CAN add up the points )

Hey Chris, First Gino, then you, Maybe Scott can get the Am ULSB championship next year so we can keep it in our pits.

[Puppet]

They have the leeway from AM to EX for certain people because by then you've at least got a decent number of races under your belt and if don feels you'll be safe as an EX then there isn't an issue. the only reason i could imagine there isn't necessarily that leeway going from NV to AM is due to lack of races and experience (this is overall, i know many people would be safe) but if you've only got 8 races thats a big experience difference than an AM thats got many more. (no offense brian...i know you'd be fine as an AM...i just imagine this is how they look at it).

No offense taken. I totally agree with you. I asked for the same reasons after winning a few with a comfortable margin, but they want a minimum number of times on the starting line and I can absolutely understand it. My point was actually trying to show the same thing, I just didn't explain far enough what I was thinking

Doc...Don's email is lrrsracing@tampabay.rr.com

[Awesome]

Oh yes you do. Ok, I'm not a champion, I'm an achiever.

A little Lebowski urban achiever, yes, and proud we are of all of them.

[Pittenger5]

Maybe Im just lucky with the guys Ive met, but I never have seen the experts look down on us. Maybe its just the EX connection, but theres a few expert EX racers that always seem to hunt me down to see how my last race went, and see how I did, or if I need any help with the bike.
Im one of the quietest people around, and tend to stick to myself, but even then, if you just say hi to some of them, or even a dumb comment about their riding, how easy they make shit look on the track, most wont be an ass about what color your plates are and stuff.
Or maybe Im just lucky, who knows

[RyanNicholson]

to be honest, i personally couldn't name a specific expert that looks down on AM/NV guys.... i've never really had any issues, but coming up i talk and hang out with A LOT of the expert guys that run my classes...learn from the best y'know?

i doubt any expert would ever give shit to any NV/AM directly, i think its more the argument that you shouldn't have to be an expert to be "somebody". I dunno....i was just typing my opinion on what someone posted on NEAR (basically agreeing with him).

[13]

I've never met an expert who looks down on the other classes either, I've just never been told that my winning the Amateur class essentially didn't matter. It didn't bother me at first. But the more I thought about it, the more it got to me.

[RyanNicholson]

shit man, you worked for it....be proud of it. if you're gunna get an am championship thats awesome....you were still faster than every other guy that you raced against right? why wouldn't that matter. thats why i think there should be am champions for the end of the season, and since the nv/am tiers are stepping stones to the top....you've conquered both of them, came out on top, and congrats on becoming an expert!

[s a x m a n]

this is why the world goes around, and different opinions are good ... i don't think anyone is wrong on the other side, I just don't see it that way.

Ox did say on the NEAR list that if he were not forced to bump, you would stay in AM longer. There lies the problem ... in my class, Jorge, Bloodgood, Norman, could have bumped when Ryan bumped, but they didn't. So now the rest of us AMs get to fight for 4th place while those few guys run 2-3 seconds (16s) faster than a good part of the field(18-21s). Such is life ... I deal with it and use it as incentive to go faster ... is it fair? who knows, is it right ... i don't believe so, getting trophies and stuff is great, but what does it really mean if you are beating the field consistently by a good margin weekend after weekend and going be doing fairly well in the next class?

Obviously its a personal decision and that decision drives us all to the reason why we race ... doesn't mean its right or wrong. Winning NVs races for one's entire career might be their goal ... good for them, but it does take away from the success of other who are trying to work their way through the system.

In the end, yes, if you have won the a class as an AM, that is great accomplishment, and I would be proud as well. Like Degsy said, if Ryan didn't move up, some of the guys in my class might not be winning the AM "championship", he basically gave them the ability to do so ... the question then is, does it take some meaning away?? I know it does for me ... I had my best weekend last weekend, but if he were still in the class, I would have not trophied in 2 of the 4 races I did trophy in ... so thanks Ryan hahahha

i knew Alex wouldn't agree ... he didn't think I should have bumped to AM when I did ... but it was the best decision I made. I got faster and had more fun because I was starting to finally race. I had just as much fun battling for last as I do now battling for 4th ... and it will be the same when I move to EX.

[13]

The thing is, the fast experts in my class(ULSB)are running 16's-17's. I'm doing well hitting 21's on a POS hawk, I don't see me being an amateur as unfair at all. My bike is badly underpowered even in that class.

I wanted to be pulling at least top 10 expert times before the end of the year, but I'll be lucky to be fighting for 10th. That's not nearly as fun as getting the top spot, but I'll deal with it. And someday maybe I will get it. Rewarding people who are on their way up the ladder isn't a bad thing in my mind.

I just hope I don't get booed at the banquet now!

[s a x m a n]

The thing is, the fast experts in my class(ULSB)are running 16's-17's. I'm doing well hitting 21's on a POS hawk, I don't see me being an amateur as unfair at all. My bike is badly underpowered even in that class.

I wanted to be pulling at least top 10 expert times before the end of the year, but I'll be lucky to be fighting for 10th. That's not nearly as fun as getting the top spot, but I'll deal with it. And someday maybe I will get it. Rewarding people who are on their way up the ladder isn't a bad thing in my mind.

I just hope I don't get booed at the banquet now!

the fast experts in my classes are running 12s, with the next group coming up in the 15s ... hehehe I have a LONG road to travel

LOL, you haven't put on a PR show like Eric Sampson did last year ... stay humble and you will be applauded (atleast by me and erin)

[smf]

Hey Chris, First Gino, then you, Maybe Scott can get the Am ULSB championship next year so we can keep it in our pits.

the way this year has gone i'd say you have a _much_ better chance at it than i do.

and i do think there should be AM championships... if you're going to force someone to bump for a specific reason (like beating everyone in their class that year) you should give them a reward for it.

[Doc]

the way this year has gone i'd say you have a _much_ better chance at it than i do.

I won't advance soon enough and you will.