New NHMS Rules

[xsiliconkid]

i think they should take the $10,000 purse thats only available to experts and put it back into the club and defer some of the new fees that way it works for everyone

Not counting the other manufactureres that pay out cash contingency, Pirelli has $80K cash set aside for contingency money for the LRRS 7 race series -
Pays back to 4th place in 10 expert classes and 9 amateur classes...,
So as an amateur, running 4th can pay out cash (to a debit card)!

[xsiliconkid]

Ain't gonna happen here Doc. People love bitching way more than actually doing something.

For me, these new fees make the decision of running in NJ that much easier because the cost is looking to be about the same with the difference being that NJMP is a safer place to run.

check out the camping fees for a RV in Jersey..... they even make track day campers pay. (for trackdays, cheaper to get an on/or off track suite and leave rv at home.)

[daviid]

as far as a RV is concerned, that breaks out to less then $34 a month. I think most people would be hard pressed to find a parking spot for RV's for that low in the new england area. I know my parking spot cost me about $50 a month in CT.

Out of all the tracks ive raced at
NHMS - Gate Fee/Power Fee
Summit Main - Gate Fee/Power Fee
VIR - Gate Fee/Limited Free Power
Carolina Motorsports Park - Gate Fee/Limited Free Power
Barber - Gate Fee/(Limited) Power Fee
Roebling Road - Gate Fee/Limited Free Power
Daytona - High Gate Fee/Power free with Garage Rental/Camping Fee

[xsiliconkid]

This one confuses the crap outta me - lap for lap trackdays have always been cheaper than racing for me... anyone else?

Agree,

Single track day about 160min on track (8x20min sessions)

Race week end
4x12 min practice session 48min
8x8 lap races 96min
to even come close to a trackday on track time...

just the race entry fee is going to cost over $400!

[scottieducati]

haha.

Not counting the other manufactureres that pay out cash contngency, Pirelli has $80K cash set aside for contingency money for the LRRS 7 race series -
Pays back to 4th place in 10 expert classes and 9 amateur classes...,
So as an amateur, running 4th can pay out cash (to a debit card)!

[Rambunctous]

All prices regarding all issues should be finalized before the applications for licenses are sent out or before demand for payment for garages. Whichever comes first. How about issuing refunds for those that put up money in good faith only to have been pearl harbored and then decided enough is enough?. That is fair. Not their fault that management could not get their act together with prices until 38 days before the season begins. Or any and all cost increases delayed until 2011. That is only fair to all concerned.

[xsiliconkid]

haha.

Hi Scottie,
you can sign up here!
http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/motorc...y/default.page

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Well, looks like I started a bit of a shit-show here. Here's my take on the new rules, for the half a penny it's worth (if that), after having some time to think on it.

• We knew there was going to be a camper storage fee eventually. Hell, a lot of people were flipping out they'd eliminate it. I don't think the storage fee is unreasonable. I wish I knew this at the end of last year, or even a month or two ago, so I didn't spend a ton of time & some $ trying to fix up my POS because it was "grandfathered in". I'd have just bought something nicer.

• I'm not too surprised about the camping fee. Seems pretty standard at other tracks, from what I hear. I'm glad we can still park campers across from the garages, and if I have to run my power cord through a cable speed bump dealie, fine.

• I think no bicycles outside the tunnel sucks. People use bicycles on public roads, and damn near everywhere I can think of. What if someone who lives close wants to pedal to the track to watch? Not being able to pedal to T6 to watch, or to registration, sucks.

• The pit bike thing sucks if your pit bike can't be registered. Seems like if you have a scooter you can grab a $20 reg & be done with it, able to ride it anywhere you want.

So yeah, it's not the best thing in the world, but it's not the end of the world in my eyes either. I can see the tunnels & registration becoming a bit of a clusterfuck if everyone uses their cars & trucks to get to reg & T6 because their pit bikes are not legal.

Like a lot of you, I'd have liked to have known about this sooner. It wouldn't have changed my plans to race this season, but it would have kept me from renovating the POS tramper I have. Oh well, shit happens...

Free gate if you pre-reg for 3 races is cool. It just might get me to start pre-registering this year, and get me to do another race. Between the pre-reg savings & the free gate my third race would get pretty cheap.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Whatever, I will Pay.

• I think no bicycles outside the tunnel sucks. People use bicycles on public roads, and damn near everywhere I can think of. What if someone who lives close wants to pedal to the track to watch? Not being able to pedal to T6 to watch, or to registration, sucks.

This kinda of Sucks I enjoyed going for a ride To Warm up between practice and racing.

I am not Joining the Doc Uprising

I have a hankering for Dairy Queen

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Whatever, I will Pay.


This kinda of Sucks I enjoyed going for a ride To Warm up between practice and racing.

I am not Joining the Doc Uprising

I have a hankering for Dairy Queen

The bike thing does suck. I was going to bring a BMX up this year for a pit bike, or dedicate a fixie, something. Looks like I'm stuck with registering the scooter, and that's not exactly exercise.

The Doc Uprising is a scam, trying to get us to back down for a Hostile Hawk Takeover of LRRS. None of this info is even on his forum.

Dairy Queen sounds good. There's one about 12-15 miles from me. Maybe I'll take a pedal over there...

[Kitt]

I have a hankering for Dairy Queen

[spydah]

I like the "boycott the first weekend" idea since I likely wont be there anyway and it will help me in the points standing. Lets all pull together on this one

[mmracer37]

A little added info, going outside the tunnel really won't be necessary this season. From what I can gather, registration will be in the infield from now on, so the pit bike thing is no big deal. You guys can use your pitbikes anywhere inside the tunnel.


I've been to tons of tracks around the country and this stuff is all pretty standard. We've been spoiled all these years at NHMS. Most places won't even let you near the garages after 6pm.


If any of you really have a legitimate issue with any of this stuff, don't bitch about it on a forum, do something PROFESSIONAL about it. Write an email to your rider reps(that would be me) and it will get presented. I can't promise any rule changes, but it will get talked about.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

A little added info, going outside the tunnel really won't be necessary this season. From what I can gather, registration will be in the infield from now on, so the pit bike thing is no big deal. You guys can use your pitbikes anywhere inside the tunnel.


I've been to tons of tracks around the country and this stuff is all pretty standard. We've been spoiled all these years at NHMS. Most places won't even let you near the garages after 6pm.


If any of you really have a legitimate issue with any of this stuff, don't bitch about it on a forum, do something PROFESSIONAL about it. Write an email to your rider reps(that would be me) and it will get presented. I can't promise any rule changes, but it will get talked about.

What about the Dairy Queen?

[Pittenger5]

I think the fees arent a huge deal but I wish with increased fees they could actually fix some of the things we'e been bitching about for years. Online registration, a PA that works, garages that dont inexplicably lose power once a weekend, places the racers can actually watch, especially now that 6 is only accessible via walking. It also wouldve been nice to have been told about these changes before a month before the season. If people ARE that upset about these rules, now they've reserved a garage, made all the preps to their bikes, etc etc. Seems like they knew people would be upset and figured theyd wait to the last minute to tell us. But hey, whatever, none of this wouldve stopped me from racing since I wouldve been about even with the camping fees/pre-reg bonus

[butcher bergs]

check out the camping fees for a RV in Jersey..... they even make track day campers pay. (for trackdays, cheaper to get an on/or off track suite and leave rv at home.)

My point was that NJMP is much safer to run at and if the cost of running at NHMS continues to creep up to the cost of supporting trips to NJ then it helps me with my decision to drive further in order to be safer and all at a similar cost no matter which track I'm at.

While I have plenty of respect for NHMS, the reality is it's not a place where the owners should be commanding world-class money for an otherwise backwoods track. If the owners can provide the racers with a safe and quality venue then I'd say the bitching would be far less.

[lrrs699]

im with bergs....since i moved to CT, the trip to NJ takes just as much time as NH give or take 5 mins. But i want to race NH all 8 wkends its my home track, I see all you fools there as well. But the new rules/fees arent helping bring in any new racers. ..........
If a new track was made and they wanted to incorporate all these additional fees, i would gladly oblige

[a13x]

While I have plenty of respect for NHMS, the reality is it's not a place where the owners should be commanding world-class money for an otherwise backwoods track. If the owners can provide the racers with a safe and quality venue then I'd say the bitching would be far less.

I keep seeing this sentiment but the reality is NHMS is one of the best overall facilities I've been to in the country (out of over 20+ tracks). Sure the track surface is a bit rough and some of the run-off isn't GP level but a bunch of the AMA tracks have run-off issues / danger spots that are just as bad (including NJ) and a shitload of tracks out there have worse pavement.

[scottieducati]

*cough* VIR.
*cough* NJMP

I haven't been to Summit in forever and have never ridden Beaver Run.

Most other tracks don't let people store their campers there all year or allow half of the other things that NHMS does tho... That said, they gotta do what they gotta do to make ends meet. If it were my $ and didn't have a warm bed and home cookin' 20 mins from the track... I'd likely hit other venues a bit more. A doubled edge sword but it seems this year should be good for both those IN and OUT of the garages, something that wasn't always the case.

Now I wonder when that PA system's gonna get an overhaul....

I keep seeing this sentiment but the reality is NHMS is one of the best overall facilities I've been to in the country (out of over 20+ tracks). Sure the track surface is a bit rough and some of the run-off isn't GP level but a bunch of the AMA tracks have run-off issues / danger spots that are just as bad (including NJ) and a shitload of tracks out there have worse pavement.

[RyanNicholson]

its definitely march eh? wow

[a13x]

I don't think you can compare the costs across the board, simply because:
1. the cost of running NHMS, is much lower than some other top notch facilities.
2. NHMS is in new hampshire, where the sport is shortenned to just over half a year, bikes in general are less popular than southern states, therefore less racing interest.

Unless you have facts these two points don't hold much water. What other 'top-notch' facilities are you referring too? Also NE has long been one of the United States major areas for motorsports fans, so saying there is less racing interest in the NE compared to the South seems odd. Club racing motorcycle entries over the last 10 years would say otherwise.

[a13x]

*cough* VIR.
*cough* NJMP

VIR has better facilities? You mean the dirt paddock? How about the 10 or so garages? VIR is in need of a repave as well. To say VIR's overall facilities are 'way better' than NHMS is simply not true.

NJMP does hit across the board, but it was built last year and really one of the only ones I could think of. They do have their fair share of crazy rules thou.

Summit and BeaveRun! hahahahahah

[RyanNicholson]

2. NHMS is in new hampshire, where the sport is shortenned to just over half a year, bikes in general are less popular than southern states, therefore less racing interest.

If I remember right, I'm pretty sure LRRS is one of the biggest clubs in the country.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

If you break it down lap for lap then yeah. But add up what you spend duing a race weekend in total and compare it to a track day weekend. The track day weekend will always cost more in the end. Racing gives you the option to get out there for less $ if you enter fewer races. Track days cost x amount regardless if you turn 10 laps in a day or 100. You are locked into a set cost.
So lap for lap a track day is cheaper, but ask me after a race weekend and even after 6 races, and I'll tell you my weekend ends up costing less than a track day weekend, even if I did turn fewer laps. I guess it's like the old apples and oranges, but I guess my point was at least you can race on the (kinda)cheap if you want to.

I guess we just disagree then! Even if I just raced 4 races in a weekend thats $150 per day without even factoring in any other costs...

one thing you can't buy w/ a trackday is the exhilaration of racing though...

agree to disagree I guess

[a13x]

Okay since I have a camper at the track (and the $400 storage fee does in fact include me) let me break down this list of new rules.

1. $15 for a camping spot without hookups.
I camped at LRRS in a tent for 4 years. Paying $15 to camp in a tent compared to $50/night at the Red Roof still seems like a sweet deal to me. $15 for 3 nights camping is cheaper than the nearby campground cost too.

2. $25 for a camping spot with electric & water.
Camping fee + electricity fee. There has been a $10/weekend electricity fee since I started in 2005 and my buddy started in 2002. No big change here and the $15 camping fee is touched upon above.

3. $25 for camping in the garage area without hookups.
Don't fully understand this one? I park my camper in the garage area and hookup to power. Is it $25 + $10 for power? I don't use water, just power. Like more clarification. Even if it is $35/3 nights to sleep in my own camper that beats $150/3 nights at Red Roof.

4. $200 for LRRS seasonal in F‐Lot with no utilities (must be removed by 10/31/2010). Any person who would like to store their camper here beyond 10/31/2010 until 4/1/2011 shall pay an additional $200, and the unit must be registered and able to be hauled on publicly owned roads.
The $200 for the 2010 season is a unexpected cost but still breaks down in my favor. That's $200 for 7-8 races (not counting trackdays and other events I'm up there) to store my camper. In line with or cheaper than paying to store it somewhere else (private storage area, parking spot fee, etc) as it breaks down to roughly $30/month. $30/month storage + $25/event camping fee still comes out WAY ahead of paying $100-150/event at the Red Roof over a 7 race season, even better including trackdays and other events.

The last part in there really sucks for me. My camper isn't registrable or able to drive on public roads. Therefore after 10/31/2010 I have to get it out of there. That's the end of camping at the track for me.

5. No power cords or water hoses will be permitted to cross roadways.
This is a head-scratcher. Power cords are not okay but covering them with those speed bumps things are? The speedbumps make a far larger impact than driving over a power cord? Either way this doesn't really cost money, just inconvenience.

6. No power cords or water hoses will be permitted to cross the fire lanes in the garage areas.
See Rule 5.

7. No open campfires in the infield. Campfires must be off the ground in approved fire pits.
Big whoop. No money here.

8. Quiet time begins at 11 p.m.
I thought QT started at 10pm? Either way this is moot point. Moving on.

9. Any generators being used for campers not paying for utilities must be shut off no later than 11 p.m. and remain off until 7 a.m.
So no running generators past 11pm. As in no skimping out on the $10 electricity fee and trying to run your generator all night to make up for it. Really nothing new here or worth getting bent over.

10. NO GREY OR BLACK WATER SHALL BE DISCHARGED ON THE GROUND. ANYONE CAUGHT VIOLATING THIS RULE WILL LOSE THE PRIVILEGE OF CAMPING AT NHMS AND WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE FINES OF THE LOCAL & STATE AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION.
*shrug* okay.

11. All campers will be parked in predetermined spots in the infield and no camping will be allowed in the turn 2 infield area.
No camping in Turn 2. Okay, big whoop. Campers will be in predetermined spots? Wanda said if you rent a garage you can camp in front of your garage.. but otherwise how's the work? Do all campers have to be in the new middle area? Slight inconvenience if so but I'll have to wait and see how it really plays out.

12. No Flag poles will be allowed in the infield.
No!!! The injustice!!!!!

13. The Single Stream recycling program is encouraged at NHMS and the proper GREEN receptacles are located throughout the infield.
14. Trash items shall be placed in the GREY trash receptacles.
Trash nazi.

15. Small children should be accompanied by responsible adults at all times.
Parenting nazi.

16. Nobody under the age of 16 with the exception of a registered 14 year old or above rider who does not hold a valid license to operate a motor vehicle shall operate ANY motorized or wheeled vehicles inside the garage areas.
No kids riding motorized vehicles in the garage areas. SWEET!!

17. No one under the age of 16, with the exception of a registered 14 year old or above rider, who does not hold a valid license to operate a motor vehicle shall not operate ANY motorized or electric powered vehicles within the infield at NHMS.
See Rule 16.

18. Anybody under the age of 18 must follow the NH State law regarding the use of
helmets.
Who new NH had a helmet law

19. Bicycles will be allowed in the infield camping areas only. No one other than competitors shall operate bicycles within the garage area or pit road.
Anyone racing (aka riders) can ride their bicycle anywhere. Kids and Guests can't ride bicycles in the garage area or pit lane. Really what's the issue?

20. Dogs must be on a leash at all times and under the control of their owner and must be properly tagged/licensed, and owners must maintain animals shot records and be able to provide upon request. Owners must be responsible for their animals waste.
Common sense.

21. Nobody shall operate any motorized vehicle outside of the tunnel/infield area which is not registered properly to be operated on public roadways unless it has met the following conditions:
a. Is displaying an NHMS Motorized Vehicle Pass (This pass may be purchased for
the season at the Operations office. The fee for the pass is $20.
b. The owner of the vehicle must be able to provide a certificate of Insurance
coverage in the amount of $1,000,000.
c. The Operator of the vehicle must maintain a valid driver’s license issued by their
state or province of residence.
This is a pain-in-the-butt but what does it really mean to me? It means I can no longer ride my CRF50 or racebike to Turn 6, which I tended to do *maybe* once a weekend. If that. It appears registration is now going to be in the Infield (great!). Since during the Loudon Classic weekend you couldn't ride pitbikes to turn 6 anyway, this really only affects 6 new weekends out of the 7.

------------------------------------------------------

So in conclusion it appears the new rules mean I have to pay and additional $30/month during the season to store my camper on someone else's property in addition to paying an additional $15 per race weekend to sleep in it. Unless I enter 3 races then my camping fee is waived. Or I can tell the man to 'fuck off' and give the Red Roof $100-150/event. Or I could drive to NJ and sleep in a hotel there. At least I have options!

I also will no longer be able to store my camper on someone else's property after the 2010 season since it's not road-legal. That's a bummer, but who didn't see the writing on the wall regarding that one a few years back? How many people have campers back there anyway?

Oh, I can't run a powercord across the road either... hrm.. lets see how that works out.



So I'm seeing alot of anger and resentment in this thread at what really? A bunch of the angry replies are from people that don't even have campers in the back. Are we still upset then over the $15 camping fee? A fee that is waived if you enter 3 races?

Lol.

PS: Motocross has always been cheaper (for the recreational racer) than Roadracing. It's comparing apples to oranges. This isn't a new development.