Give a Novice some Advice!

[union]

Hi bdawkins with all the track days you've done I'm sure you've done some track walks, but if you get the chance do it again. And bring a notebook! All the track walks I've been on I was the only one scribbling notes like a maniac, but its well worth the effort. I can go back and over look these, review braking points, possible shift points, and really get a good look at the track from a stand still. Also, make sure to do the walk with a well seasoned rider, write down their commentary. I was fortunate to do my walk with Carl McAllister and he is a wealth of information. One thing I wish I had thought to do on my track walks is bring a camera, snap some shots of the track for visual reference.

I wish I thought to bring a camera as well. Another thing would be some sort of audio recorder. Even taking notes you still miss a lot. I know I cant write fast and legible especially while walking on the track. What makes it even worse for me is Im a lefty so I have nothing to rest my hand on as Im writing. Its just a mess of chicken scratch.

[PPS26]

set the bike up good, stock gearing is fine, change the frt fork springs and oil, set rear ride height stock shock is fine, ride and ride and ride, friday practice, sat and sunday practice.... good tires laps man thats it..try to follow someone a bit quicker and see what they do... hope it helps

[a13x]

Hi bdawkins with all the track days you've done I'm sure you've done some track walks, but if you get the chance do it again. And bring a notebook! All the track walks I've been on I was the only one scribbling notes like a maniac, but its well worth the effort. I can go back and over look these, review braking points, possible shift points, and really get a good look at the track from a stand still. Also, make sure to do the walk with a well seasoned rider, write down their commentary. I was fortunate to do my walk with Carl McAllister and he is a wealth of information. One thing I wish I had thought to do on my track walks is bring a camera, snap some shots of the track for visual reference.

This is great advice.

[akira700]

This is cool. Lotso good info here!
thanks

[13]

Wirelessly posted (my phone: Mozilla/4.1 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; ) 400x240 LGE VX10000)

Despite what peolpe are saying, you can get faster each weekend without crashing. (It will happen, I know). .

+1

I can't stand the mindset "You have to crash to find the limits". I never crashed once my Rookie year and smoked it.


Be smart, observant, and constantly apply thought to your riding and times will drop.

I agree! I crashed a bunch in my rookie season, but every crash was in the rain. I haven't crashed(other than a downed bike right in front of me) since my amateur season. The times will come to you, just practice. Take notes. Don't try to lose 5 seconds a lap. A tenth here and a tenth there will really add up! Trust your pirellis, they'll get you through the corners .

[OreoGaborio]

only 5 race crashes since 2006 and two of those were cuz I got hit by another bike.

[nmendell]

Kevin Schwantz preaches that most learning occurs when you're riding between something like 65 and 85% of what you think is as fast as you can go. I take that to mean that you can learn more about the track, the bike, the tires, and the effectiveness of different riding techiniques when you leave yourself a little margin for error. It's not a bad way to get up to speed, instead of riding as close to the edge of crashing as you think you can.

[butcher bergs]

I can't stand the mindset "You have to crash to find the limits".

No one here even came close to suggesting that.

Fact is, it's a very real part of what makes some riders faster, myself included. I made a few mistakes that resulted in some lowsides, learned from the mistakes I made and will continue to work to not make those mistakes again.

[bdawkins20]

Guys,

Couldn't be happier with the responses! I appreciate all the comments and tips. I will have to check the gearing but I believe it is set up for loudon from the previous owner. Come to think of it, the sv is really ready to go with race tech springs and emulators up front with a penske rear. just a lot of the normal bolt ons..... I conversed with the previous owner and he was def. in the 1:24-25 range with this bike. So.... its def. rider error etc...

I do keep notes and write down stuff right after I get off the track. I think someone said previously that they are totally lost In 6. I kinda am also........I try to visualize it in my head and it gets pretty foggy. Its def. a turn where I have to slow down and really ingrain it and pic points etc...

Due to work, I will always be behind because I am gone for 3 weeks at a time and racing and time off don't always line up. Again-thanks for the advice!

[McBiggity]

just keep working.
I raced a 1st gen SV for half of my last year. Penske Rear/Racetech front. Stock motor/exhaust.
I just went a bit faster everytime out. Followed someone faster, see what they are doing different and then work on achieving what they are doing.
Didn't crash at all my last year and I was going a heck of alot faster than I ever had in my prior 2 years.
Stay loose, don't panic and build the corner speed. It will come with time. Took me forever to break 1:30's on the ex500.

[Doc]

Brake later, throttle earlier.

[a13x]

No one here even came close to suggesting that.

Fact is, it's a very real part of what makes some riders faster, myself included. I made a few mistakes that resulted in some lowsides, learned from the mistakes I made and will continue to work to not make those mistakes again.

I was replying (and used the quote function) directly to what Paul ED said. My comment stands as such.

If you pushed the front end 2' on the exit of a corner and DID NOT CRASH I bet you'd apply the same logic and reasoning to 'hey why did that happen' as if you pushed the front 2' and lowsided. If you spun up the rear going up T4 and got bucked out of the seat and DID NOT CRASH you'd learn just as much if you did highside yourself to the moon. The edge is sharp, some get cut, some don't.

In my experience as a Novice you do not have to crash to find the limits of your ability and skill and learn from it. 9 out of 10 times Novices will drop 2 or 3 seconds Friday or Saturday, go out Day 2 and expect to drop another .5 or something and pile it. Happens every year. Its very very easy as a new rider to out ride their ability before their mind catches up.

[lrrs313]

Yea +1 on pretty much everything everyone else said. Consistency comes with knowing and using reference points, and getting faster comes with knowing how to change what you're doing at each reference point to increase speed (move this brake marker up, get on the gas before this marker instead of at it, etc).

BIG +1. Find your line. Know your line. Find your reference points and concentrate on hitting YOUR line every lap, every time you're on the track. Once you can hit your line every lap, think about where you can move your brake markers up, where you can get on the gas earlier, where you can carry more corner speed. If you then feel like you are going as fast as you can through a section on your line, then consider changing your line slightly. But the biggest thing is getting YOUR line nailed, then making slight changes each session. Be consistent and patient, it will come.

[butcher bergs]

In my experience as a Novice you do not have to crash to find the limits of your ability and skill and learn from it.

Ultimately, no and I agree.

I think it's the use of the words "have to" that's throwing me off. Of course not everyone will "have to" crash in order to acheive goals, but there are some people that do have to........nobody knows until the time comes, which that is the point of my post.

I certainly don't subscribe to the "you have to crash to go faster" notion, but for me, it was a wake up call as to what I had to change if I were going to set and surpass my personal goals.

In my case, for one example, it was tires. All but one of my crashes have been when I was using takeoffs of unknown history and pushing every aspect of my riding in the process. Knowing this, and in order for me to go faster, I knew I had to go with new tires (in this case) and start fresh. Hence, crashing made me faster.

[a13x]

[Kurlon]

I'm going to disagree, slightly.

As a novice, crashing may be the only way to feel the distinct changes in feedback between good grip, pushing, chatter, and then zing boom. Usually it's a hard wall to move from good grip into the pushing range for most, and depending on tire choice/options (used take offs for example) and bike (MW SB vs Motard) the transition may occur too quickly for people to realize what happened initially. But once they've finally felt it, then they can stop panicking at the first bit of feedback rather than riding around it.

If you've got experience with that feeling already from lots and lots and lots of track days, or are on a bike with a huge warning range like a motard, you will likely be able to find that zone without going past the first few times.

This is one of the reasons I like to promote minis, they let you experience all of this at MUCH lower speeds, with far easier to deal with crashes. : )

[Paul_E_D]

Problem is, most novices are making so many mistakes all at once that they really can't learn much from a crash. Why not learn at the same rate or much faster by not crashing? Even Bergs has pointed this out inadvertently (takeoffs may not be great, but they don't "cause" crashes) So, he learned one thing, but not anything about his riding errors.

[nt650hawk]

In agreement with Paul-E-D

There may not be enough knowledge for the Novice to figure out what happened. It could have been a number of things that promoted the push/slide or contact with the pavement.

Some have this ability. Other do not.

My first race I high sided in T4 but kept the bike under me. The second race I low sided coming out of T2. I knew that rear kept on wanting to come around on me. What was causing this on the first lap?? I figured out that I needed race tires rather than top of the line Dot's and later on tire warmers. I was too aggressive on the first couple of laps trying to keep up with riders that had the above. I learned real quickly what I needed to do. Start off slow and gradually increase my lap times each lap as I kept on building heat into the tires.

[RyanNicholson]

Yea I had a crashing habit when I first got into racing... it definitely taught me a lot but at what cost y'know? Mostly I chalk it up to the fact I'd only been riding a motorcycle for 4 months before deciding racing my R6 was a good idea though. I definitely wanted to be faster and pushed myself hard. At first it was certainly inexperience, then I learned that cold tires = bad, then I learned not to use a clip master link, then it was the fact that stock suspension just wasn't meant for what I was asking of it... then I smartened up a bit. I had 2 crashes last year, lost the front once and got taken out once.

Crashing sucks, and even though its definitely possible to learn from it... it also has the potential of making you scared shitless of a corner or situation, esp when you're inexperienced and don't know why you went down, which means you'll be slower in the long run.

[gixxer72]

I was replying (and used the quote function) directly to what Paul ED said. My comment stands as such.

If you pushed the front end 2' on the exit of a corner and DID NOT CRASH I bet you'd apply the same logic and reasoning to 'hey why did that happen' as if you pushed the front 2' and lowsided. If you spun up the rear going up T4 and got bucked out of the seat and DID NOT CRASH you'd learn just as much if you did highside yourself to the moon. The edge is sharp, some get cut, some don't.

I like your T4 example, my 2nd race (I am a rookie this year) I spun it up going up 4 which really caught me by surprise and freaked me a bit. Thankfully it worked out and I was lucky enough not to chop throttle or do anything else stupid. Thinking about it later I realized that it happened because I was off my typical line, trying to make a pass and being a bit too hard on the gas. My body position was most likely shit too. In any event I learned from it, and hope to continue learning in this way. Not that I am terrified of crashing (had my share of it in MX) but I don't want to have a crash that I dont learn from - or worse a crash that makes me apprehensive about it happening again and puts my lap times in the wrong direction...

[SVRACER01]

typing is alot of work.
come see me at the school bus. riding an SV around the track can be different than other bikes, especially of greater HP.
ill be up at the track Sat eve and all day Sun. should be easy to find...its a big yellow school bus. im usually nearby. if im not at the bus then im usually in the garages (5 i think, with #'s 248,889,121,84) just ask for Oxx, someone will know where/how to find me. ill help you shave seconds.

[Doc]

Oxx is a good teacher. He helped me when I was in Arizona riding at Firebird and he was in NH. he also has given me good tips on loudon.

[GixerJockey]

. ill help you shave seconds.

What the fuck? Help ME shave seconds!

[butcher bergs]

Problem is, most novices are making so many mistakes all at once that they really can't learn much from a crash. Why not learn at the same rate or much faster by not crashing? Even Bergs has pointed this out inadvertently (takeoffs may not be great, but they don't "cause" crashes) So, he learned one thing, but not anything about his riding errors.

In agreement with Paul-E-D

There may not be enough knowledge for the Novice to figure out what happened. It could have been a number of things that promoted the push/slide or contact with the pavement.

Some have this ability. Other do not.

Point was supposed to be that I was on equipment with an ill setup and it took a few incidents to fully realize the fact that I needed a setup that was proper for me if I were going to be effectively continuing my push for reduced lap times. The first thing to go was the who-knows-how-old tires followed by a list of other things.

Since my machine has been setup to my liking, my comfort has increased considerably as well as my lap times decreasing rather consistantly. I'd say I learned from the mistakes and improved the areas I needed to improve in.....or are we speaking on something different??

[SVRACER01]

What the fuck? Help ME shave seconds!

you want help? ask.