Another race report...

[scootertrash]

Had a fun time racing Sunday, despite another day of rain.

I swapped my tires from DOTs to Rains a total of 4 times over the weekend.

Thanks to Gerard for the help Sunday morning so I could make practice.

Had an awesome time racing Jay Hegotafunnyhaircut in the GTO race. We were together in 2nd-3rd for most of the race until the very last lap. I had been sliding the rear in turn 2 for the whole race. On the last lap, it slid as usual and I caught it at first, but then slid some more and I found myself sliding down the track without my bike. Slammed into the wall. I didn't get hurt aside from some soreness in my back, arm, and foot, but my bike got messed up some. Smashed the tail, windscreen, twisted the exhaust, and a few other things. Nothing major, just more things to fix. It was good to see Degsy suddenly appear (he was working the corner) and help me get my head together and my bike off the track. Cornerworkers are cool.
I really appreciate the help from Jay Hestolemytrophy, Brian, and a bunch of others for all the help in getting my bike ridable so I could do race 11. We installed a total of 35 zip ties and 12 miles of duct tape, but it was safe, ugly, but ridable. After my get-off in race 3 I was riding pretty cautiously, but did end up with a 3rd place trophy.

Oh...I had another interesting thing happen in the GTO race. At the half way point, I came out of turn 12 and slid it as I was entering the front straight. Got a little sideways and found out what Target Fixation is. I thought it was a joke, but I found out it really happens. I was staring at the wall, telling myself not to hit it, and kept the gas on as I went straight for the wall. I whacked into it, the bike got pretty squirly, but managed to keep it upright. I got pretty shook up and lost some time for a lap or two while I shook it off. It was pretty freaky. I should have been looking down the track, not at the wall...

It was good seeing everyone at the track.

Time to start searching for a new tail for the ol' GSXR...

[OreoGaborio]

man, glad to hear you're alright, big guy happy to hear you had another "successful" weekend, dispite your incidents. see ya at the next race weekend, i promise

[Nikon]

i was packin up my bike and saw Bryan come over with a tail section with your numbers on it. Was worried but he said you were ok. If I didn't ahve to get on the road I woulda tried to help but I think that you had enough people there anyway

Next time teach J a lesson

[legalspeed]

Good job Gordo!!

It's all part of the territory. Hessogonnabebehindyounexttime is great to have around the pits!

If you're thinking about doing a Thursday practice let me know.

[Paul_E_D]

<Buzzkill on> Dude, you hit the wall TWICE in a single weekend? I'd have to recommend backing off a notch before you really do hurt yourself. I know the buzz of doing well is motivating, but riding beyond your limits WILL hurt. It's only a matter of time... Wooden trophies are not worth getting paralyzed over. <Buzkill off>

[Awesome]

Turn two was a little extra hairy during our race. Not only was the apex slick but there were two huge runs of rainbow that you could see on the track. I had to wait a long time coming out of that turn to get on the gas and the back tire would spin up quite a bit. I also spun the rear a little coming onto the straight a couple times before tightening my line. Not sure if it was the paint or the pavement change. I still drifted extremely close to the wall there on the times I was getting a really good drive coming out of 12. Gordon is running great, I wouldn't say he's pushing too much at all. The track was just a huge mess this weekend. Me and gordon's best lap times for that race were off by less than .1 seconds. It was sush a great race.

[legalspeed]

There was some shit in 1-A too, my rear broke lose every lap, I had to almost pick it up off the pavement in 2; Whoah! WTF? More throttle, more throttle...

A bike with oem engine covers went down in 2 and (according to one cornerworker), the oil was like sludge. Nor did he safety wire the oil drain plug. This all happened before our race. They held us on the grid trying to clean up.

If you look back through, I think you will see an inordinate amount of DNF(s), expert on down.

The biggest threat to us riders last weekend was OSHA.

[Paul_E_D]

Jay and Scooter, no disrespect intended. I can tell you after years of running in the rain that those are the usual conditions for T2 and T12. In 2 there's oil deep in the pavement that just oozes out when it rains. Also, the new pavement up high has a sealer or something on it that is incredibly slick when wet. T 12 has that same type of pavement up high yeilding the same result. Don't expect that to get any better. Ironically, they called it "high traction sealer" or some bullshit when they laid down new pavement for NASCAR.

However, Hitting the wall represents riding beyond your limit no matter how you slice it up. Twice in one weekend means that in two seperate races the rider was beyond his limits.

Don't forget, there are other people on the track with you. What if somone was coming around the outside when that happened? I've been hit and injured by people riding over their limits. I know what it looks like, I know what it feels like. It's not funny. I don't want it to ever happen to me again. That's what I'm here to say. Think about it without getting defensive if you can.

[Awesome]

I hear what you're saying Paul. I'm sure that sealznt is what I was hitting when I was shooting out too wide in 12. Turn 2 I know is always slick but this was a bit more than normal. It was well past the turn on the straight, and it was litterally two thick blankets of oil coming down the track. You could see them clear in my race and Dan's but I didn't see the rainbows in my race later in the day. 1A was a huge mess too. it was like a lake of oil. There was at least a few quarts in those two sections of the track. You could get past it, you had to go real tight coming through 1A and wide into 2 and tiptoe about 1/4 of the way down the straight. I don't know if the car from the prior weekend contributed. I didn't hit the wall but I did go down in 10 in the rain. That was my error, I don't think I was pushing too hard. I know better than the mistake I made but I still made it, I wasn't very focused this weekend and seemed to just be getting the feel back for the track.

There are a lot of riders out there pushing too hard. Especially in our class. I had a rider/bike bounce off me coming into turn one off the line but luckily I managed to keep the bike up. Some people out there need to realize a few things. Such as this is club racing not motogp, it takes skill not just balls/stupidity to make a pass, and we're out there to have fun. I got steamed by a few people making crazy passes and stuffing me in practice. I'm out there working on my lines, and visuals and I get pushed to the outside of 3 on a waving yellow by some motard that was much slower than me. That's part of racing and all, but you don't need to be a dick in practice, I grid up out there to win, but I'm not going to bump someone off the track to do it 1st place trophy or not.

I do like coming home with wood, but I enjoy a clean race much more. Gordon and I passed eachother a few times and they were all smooth clean passes and well done. I had more fun in that race than any of the others, and I wasn't at all worried about anyone slamming into me or anything like that unlike my other races. I'm not being defensive at all. Everyone that's out on the track is pushing a bit, some more than others. I know I was just getting a feel for my bike this weekend. And also testing the limits of the race tires. I'm still getting to know the track as well as my bike, and add in the variable of a different traction scale and the margin for errors and crashes gets wider. By the times that gordon and I were running everything seemed reletively smooth and consistant

....I think I just wrote a book.

[Paul_E_D]

It sounds like you're doing everything right. My observation may be off the mark, but I'm glad you're thinking about this stuff. It's just good for the sport to talk about what's good racing and what's not IMHO.

[highsider]

I dont race, so please dont take this the wrong way - IS there such a thing as pushing too hard in a race? Isn't that the point?

I dont like to push my bike hard, which is why I only do track days.

[Paul_E_D]

YES, there absolutely is such a thing. Would you say you come to track days to recklessly endanger yourself or others?

The problem is that new racers are often so pumped with adrenalin and ego that they can't really discern between pushing their limits enough to learn and get faster, and just taking reckless chances that seriously endanger their bodies, and the bodies of other racers.

Highsider, Come on out and let me centerpunch you in Turn 9 at 85 MPH. It'll be a great learning experience for you...

[highsider]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D


Highsider, Come on out and let me centerpunch you in Turn 9 at 85 MPH. It'll be a great learning experience for you...

Gee, what a guy.

I guess I was assuming we all knew the difference between "reckless endangerment" and "pushing hard in a race".

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by highsider
I dont race, so please dont take this the wrong way - IS there such a thing as pushing too hard in a race? Isn't that the point?

I dont like to push my bike hard, which is why I only do track days.

Abso-fucking-lutely there is.

We are racing, not committing suicide.

Some of the things that I see are:
sweepers, slow bikes sweeping across the track from side to side; stuffers, someone who tries to stuff their bike between you and the curb (usually going into a corner), blocking, getting in front of someone and jamming on the brakes.

I like to show someone a wheel first, unless I'm considerably faster. After I show them a wheel and they know I'm there trying to pass; I take the next opportunity to go by them.

My last race: I had the perfect opportunity to blast past need4speed on our last lap. There was another rider racing him as we went around 9 to T10. I surged forward but both spread across the track into 11-11a so I backed it down a notch.
Coming out of 12 my thought was to stay low and straight, John stayed low-middle, so I was going to go to the outside, but the guy he was dicing with looked like a beginner and I thought him to be unpredictable. I was right, he went high and I was going to split them, but then he closed the gap with John. I just stayed back, rolled off the throttle and coasted by the finish line. Pushing past them would have been inconsiderate of my fellow riders (read: one of them -not John- may have made a mistake and taken us all out).

To get back to this thread, Gordo is not the type to ride beyond his abilities and I don't think he did on Sunday.

[legalspeed]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D

Highsider, Come on out and let me centerpunch you in Turn 9 at 85 MPH. It'll be a great learning experience for you...

Paul, that's uncalled for.

Some of these guys are asking legitimate questions of us because they look up to racers, and, they just don't know and want to learn.

[highsider]

Originally posted by legalspeed
Paul, that's uncalled for.

Some of these guys are asking legitimate questions of us because they look up to racers, and, they just don't know and want to learn.

Which is why I said:

Originally posted by highsider
I dont race, so please dont take this the wrong way

No offense intended.

[Paul_E_D]

OK, so that sounded a bit too harsh. It wasnt directed at you personally, but if you don't know that this kind of thing happens in club racing, you're off the mark. There are a lot of people crashing in nearly every race who think that's somehow normal, or just how you learn to go fast. That's not my opinion.

Just this weekend my teammate was hit from behind in turn one by another racer. My teammate stayed up, but the guy crashed, breaking his collarbone, ribs and shoulder, took out another racer who also made a trip to the hospital with broken bones. His bike is a wad of trash. The guilty party said something like, "we were just playing".

To me, that macho crap is BS. The guy was out of control and he hurt someone. He wasn't fighting for the lead or anything, just riding over his head.

I know the sport is dangerous, but it doesn't have to be STUPID too.

Over and out.

[legalspeed]

I can understand. That sucks, hope he learned and heals up fast, gald your teammate was relatively unaffected.

You are right, there are some out there that shouldn't be.

[Paul_E_D]

This is an open apology for responding harshly or sounding condescending on this thread. I guess I'm getting a little burnt out on some aspects of the sport. This topic just got my hackles up.

I'm usually a nice guy... really

[Awesome]

I took no offense. You make good points. And I'm with you.

[scootertrash]

Paul...no offense taken. You are a very skilled racer with tons more experience than I have. I will always welcome you advice. I can see why you made some of your comments...based on my write-up, it probably does sound like I was pretty reckless. It is good to see people stand up and remind us all that this is for fun and it's not worth hurting someone else just so you can get a wooden plaque. In reality, I was pushing it a little when I tapped the front wall, but I don't think I was over the edge. It did give me a dose of reality and I definately backed off a bit to make sure I didn't do that again. My crash in turn 2, which happened later in that same race, was definately not caused by me pushing it. I was being very careful in T2 for the whole race because there were 3-4 people crashing there every race. (at least it seemed that way) I just hit the oil and wasn't able to recover quick enough.
Jay and Dan...thanks for the vote of confidence. It was great racing with you this past weekend.

[Paul_E_D]

Cool, I'm glad you took it the right way. I've been impressed with you guys so far. See you out there next time.

Paul

[Kip]

I like to show someone a wheel first, unless I'm considerably faster. After I show them a wheel and they know I'm there trying to pass; I take the next opportunity to go by them.


What do you mean show someone a wheel? As like to say "Hellow I want to pass will you let me". You should say to yourself "I'm going to out brake this guy or get on the gas early and go past him". Not show a wheel for 4 turns then say "O'well I can't get by him/her".
I have never showed anyone a wheel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pass when I want no matter if it's on the outside or inside, and I have not put anyone in danger yet as far as I know.

[highsider]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
OK, so that sounded a bit too harsh. It wasnt directed at you personally, but if you don't know that this kind of thing happens in club racing, you're off the mark. There are a lot of people crashing in nearly every race who think that's somehow normal, or just how you learn to go fast. That's not my opinion.

Just this weekend my teammate was hit from behind in turn one by another racer. My teammate stayed up, but the guy crashed, breaking his collarbone, ribs and shoulder, took out another racer who also made a trip to the hospital with broken bones. His bike is a wad of trash. The guilty party said something like, "we were just playing".

To me, that macho crap is BS. The guy was out of control and he hurt someone. He wasn't fighting for the lead or anything, just riding over his head.

I know the sport is dangerous, but it doesn't have to be STUPID too.

Over and out.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked. Thanks for taking out your weekend's misfortune on me, though.

I didn't have a lot of time at work today to respond to this, but I do now. Other folks on this site may be ok with your attitude because you have lots of race experience, but I'm not. Your offer to "centerpunch" me, even if sarcastic, is juvenile , and is a blatant case of "internet muscles".

I grew up watching bike racing at Loudon, starting back in the early 80's when my father raced the Breyer track. In all of that time, I have never met anyone with an attitude like you exhibited in this thread.

[legalspeed]

He appologized, Paul's a good cat with a level head, that's why I jumped on him.

Kip, I'll take that advice when I'm doing 15's like you. I don't show a wheel for 4 turns; One, then you'd better know I'm there and am taking the inside line.
I must admit I am a courteous rider, I'm also in the slowest group out there.