To Race or Not To Race...

[FireboltEric_MA]

Firebolt Eric - You're just fine, no question.

Uh oh, was that sarcastic? Am I doing it wrong?

I do need some coaching still... that is a given...

[RyanNicholson]

Tell you quick guys what, spend a day buzzing people at a trackday who's 10, 15 and 20 seconds slower than you and report back. If you don't see a safety issue after that then I'm not sure what it will take.

Bergs, I know what you're saying... closing speeds can be dangerous, no doubt. I've been there... hell I hit mid 17's before bumping up to AM trust me I feel your pain.

My opinion is instead of a min lap time or some kind of restriction... get the slower racers to stay on line and stay predictable, its the faster riders responsibility to get around them safely. If the closing speeds are that high, get the faster guys to bump up a class like they should y'know?

I've never had an issue with someone running 10/15secs slower than myself if I know where they're gunna be. The only times it becomes dangerous is if the slower racer goes off line or does something unpredictable, or the passing rider makes a boneheaded or misjudged move.

[Doc]

$200 to the novice GTL points leader

Well doesn't that just suck! I wish they had that when I was in novice!



Seriously I think it is great. I am just jealous.

[Degsy]

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I'm sorry but I'm going to sound like an asshole here. Your statements make you sound like you have zero understanding of racing or what I'm talking about.

My statement? You asshole!!..

No, 6 fingered man

[butcher bergs]

My opinion is instead of a min lap time or some kind of restriction... get the slower racers to stay on line and stay predictable, its the faster riders responsibility to get around them safely. If the closing speeds are that high, get the faster guys to bump up a class like they should y'know?

How do people learn the line? I think everyone can agree the answer is "by being out there". Now we take the unpredicable, slow, hey-this-is-my-first-time-on-the-track new racer and put them in a field where they are much more than a few seconds slower than even the field avg. Now as the faster riders, who are also new to all this as well, are setting up to pass a bike who is 10 seconds or more off their pace, we are essentially asking both of those new riders to remain predictable and smooth and in the mean time one rider, while still a capable street rider, has never experienced closing speeds like this and the other has never seen the track.

With regards to bumping, as the rules are written and from my understanding, NV's need a min of 10 races with an index of .75 or greater in order to bump. I will use my experience in NV as an example why a cap on lap times would have been appreciated. There were at least 3 bikes dipping into the teens in NV but no one was eligible to bump. We had a small freight train running all within .5 sec of each other mixing with people doing 1:40's or slower....nevermind the line they chose. It got dicey in a way that I was happy to leave behind. Seeing it first hand I don't think a cap on lap time is unreasonable, besides, other benefits could come in the form of reducing red flags, tighter racing and safer passing in general and all this is the result of everyone being within a similar pace and well practiced.

[Kurlon]

The rules as written are not what The Don has been using when it comes to bumping. He looks at track experience, lap times, and general safety of a rider to determine if they're allowed to bump or not. Those fast riders, if holding a good line and being predictable could very likely have bumped early if they asked. But this is old news, it's come up time and time again on here, hell I was eligible to bump by the rules two years ago, but Don said NO due to lap times.

[MysteriousR1]

Hell I had nine days on the track last year (five at VIR) and I still dont think Im ready to get my race license. I still think theres alot to learn before I consider that. I personally find it a little foolish that people just hop into racing, its some serious shit. Not just your life on the line, your fellow racers also. With the wide range of track days available, why dont more people just start there?

[Rambunctous]

It is not good to have two racers passing on each side of a much slower racer. If he panics and swrerves it could be ugly. I am a novice and do not wish to bump and have two to four EX's going at it and using me as a blocker while they are doing 13's and me doing 24 as a AM. So even Novices doing 24 should not sandwich someone doing 35's. We got to work Monday morning.

[Rambunctous]

Lets be careful this weekend.

[butcher bergs]

Uh oh, was that sarcastic? Am I doing it wrong?

That was you on the R6 following me on my FZ1, right?

[FireboltEric_MA]

That was you on the R6 following me on my FZ1, right?

Yup, blue cbr it was. You waved me buy but I was just hangin' out...

[butcher bergs]

Yup, blue cbr it was. You waved me buy but I was just hangin' out...

I always do that. The nose throws me off.

[RyanNicholson]

My point was more along the lines of "you're the better rider, its your responsibility to do everything you can to avoid running into the slower guy"

I just dislike faster riders complaining about slower riders just because they're slow. I wouldn't recommend anyone try racing as a first time track experience but it does happen, and there are slower racers out there. Be the better rider.

Yes racing can be pretty serious business, and everyone wants to win. But the novice class is where you learn to not be an idiot.... instead of regulation and minimum lap times I'd rather just teach new racers to keep their head on their shoulders the best they can. Crashes will happen regardless.

[butcher bergs]

.... instead of regulation and minimum lap times I'd rather just teach new racers to keep their head on their shoulders the best they can.

But that's assuming you get the time to sit down with these riders. I hear you 1000%, Ryan, and am with you on helping these new riders we speak of. The issue arises when the community has these people who jump right in without a clue as to what they are doing, no experience whatsoever and all because there isn't a regulation on expected lap times, for example. You're also assuming that the faster rider is more in control or has more capability than a slower rider and I disagree with that notion.

My view is, if there is an imposed lap time cap for NV, that cap would quite possibly reduce the confusion generally associated with the NV classes, reduce the amount of mistakes, reduce the number of mishaps and likely reduce the number of times the red flag flies. Personally, I see nothing but good when we have edcuated and experienced people circulating the race track.

It's not a complaint of mine, it's a concern. We're talking about a 20 second span of laptimes in a given field, Ryan. Might not seem like alot but try running full steam while holding your breath. It's quite a bit of time to make last-second adjustments while traveling at 125 mph.

[tsanterre]

My view is, if there is an imposed lap time cap for NV, that cap would quite possibly reduce the confusion generally associated with the NV classes, reduce the amount of mistakes, reduce the number of mishaps and likely reduce the number of times the red flag flies.

Would it be a cap on both ends? IE - certain lap times to enter NV and certain lap times mean bumping to AM?

[butcher bergs]

I wouldn't think that would be necessary. The entire basis of my thoughts are the attempt at keeping the people who have never seen the track (or people who are running upwards of 1:35's) in more of a practice state of mind until the goal is able to be reached both consistently and safely.

I saw people doing 2-minute laptimes when I was in NV. I wouldn't be surprised if that scenario were still ongoing. Keep in mind that a small group of us were turning teens at that time.

The question is, how slow is "too slow" and where does anyone start to draw the line at "dangerous". IMO, anything more than 12 seconds off the pace of the field average is just about at that threshold.

[tsanterre]

So I didn't make it down....

Between not being able to leave until Sat. morning, not finding a helmet, not sure about the tires that came on the bike, suspension not set up, and the 60% chance of rain each day... I decided not to force it.

I know I probably could have found a helmet to borrow and put tires on Sat. morning...etc etc...but I decided that going down about 60% ready wasn't the best idea for my very first race.

Looks like the weather is decent today...

Thanks again for all the offers to share pit space / tools etc. I'll def look for you guys next time down and if you see an orange/white 600RR come say hey!

[jcbell1007]

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I can't race again till august, and between now and then I have some work I want to do on the hawk. I'm sure if you want to bring your bike over for a day or two, I can help you get it ready. Safety wiring, I have a tire machine etc... I'm sure we could get you set to go really quickly.