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New race team for '08

  1. #26
    Lifer DaSarge's Avatar
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    New race team for '08


    Good Luck

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  2. #27
    Unsafe At Any Speeds Jim's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by CMG41 View Post
    Denno on a 3 man team - makes sense!

    Good luck punk

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  3. #28
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanNicholson View Post
    nice man....good luck!

    man, i wish i had thought this far ahead and knew what you know when i got into racing haha
    what does he know that we dont?

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  4. #29
    Lifer RyanNicholson's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    what does he know that we dont?
    i meant what he knows already as hes getting into racing.... hell i didn't even know you had to pay at the front gate when i went to the basic school, or even the track layout for that matter

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  5. #30
    Just Registered Crash Dummy Denno's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    yes.


    a 4th team member? :raises hand:
    well what would you like to pay for? tires? fuel? boots? tell you what just send a blank check...

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    im pretty sure i can race anything
    you should really look to improve your confidence

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    what does he know that we dont?
    i know you're a hater!!

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    Denno - CCS|LRRS EX#49
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  6. #31
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    ive raced things you havent even heard of

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    When I start my KTM in the morning, rules are broken. Its inevitable...
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  7. #32
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    I am SOOO putting him in the wall!

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  8. #33
    Just Registered Wishbone's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by rmbbikes View Post
    just to clarify is it Dee-know?

    or Den-know?

    Fir like I den-know how to ride?

    KB

    I have also heard Den-o

    But I am confused because Dee-know is Italian, but if its a derivative of Dennis...please clarify

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  9. #34
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    I say it Den No. should be his smilie.

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  10. #35
    Just Registered Crash Dummy Denno's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    Denno - sounds like Den-O

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    Denno - CCS|LRRS EX#49
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  11. #36
    Just Registered Crash Dummy Denno's Avatar
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    New race team for '08

    website has been updated BTW - when you're all done laughing...

    god damn kids...

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    Denno - CCS|LRRS EX#49
    2006 Yamaha R6
    LRRS Rookie of the Year 2008

  12. #37
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    Re: New race team for '08

    2/3 of CGS racing are on their way back from jennings GP today after a very successful first test of the 675. Denno laid down some extremely fast times and was very happy with the bike.

    It's not all good news, but I'll wait for him to get back before we update the website.

    derek

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  13. #38
    KB KB's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Lemme guess the 675 needs a new subframe forks and plastics? Is Den O ok?

    KB

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  14. #39
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by rmbbikes View Post
    Lemme guess the 675 needs a new subframe forks and plastics? Is Den O ok?

    KB
    Nah, you're way off.

    Denno is fine. The test was very successful. He loves the bike and the new Dunlop tyres. Couple of changes we need to make before April but the bike is 90% there. Obviously, there will be plenty of suspension tuning needed to set her up for Loudon, though. Jennings is much smoother than Loudon.

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  15. #40
    Lifer RyanNicholson's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    i was gunna ask how he liked the 675, glad to hear things went well....

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  16. #41
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    2/3 of CGS racing are on their way back from jennings GP today after a very successful first test of the 675. Denno laid down some extremely fast times and was very happy with the bike.

    It's not all good news, but I'll wait for him to get back before we update the website.

    derek
    No front end feel from the Triumph. Flicks in great then, can't tell what's happening with the tire. Kawi feels like a truck compared the Triumph, but lap times are faster. The sand in Florida has very little traction, but feels soft at any thing under 60mph.

    ****FYI. To all he people who have assumed from this post that Peter was in Florida with the CGS team, this is a speculative post from Peter in response to my post about all not going perfectly in Jennings. He wasn't there and we weren't breaching our sponsorship contracts!! He is talking about the 675 in general, NOT commenting on results of the CGS test. That is all. ****

    Thanks

    degsy

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    Last edited by Degsy; 01-04-08 at 11:54 AM.

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  17. #42
    Senior Member Hoss's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by l3uddha View Post
    what kinds of things would you do to improve front end feel? general question, but just curious if it's something that can easily be fixed.
    I know a lot of the guys racing the bike put the fork tubes flush with the triples for one. But thats about the extent my my noob knowledge.

    Adjustable triples? But that makes it illegal in most classes, right?

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  18. #43
    Fork oil in my veins.... gmdboston's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Triumph designs and build bikes for road use, not racing. As part of their philosophy to get a light nimble feel, they use a rake angle of about 23 deg. and trail at 88-90mm. This gives a very light initial flick in, but if you are hard the brakes and turning, like at a track day or race, you will loose all feel as you lean over due to the decrease in trail. Triumph uses a 40 mm clamp off set, far different from the more common 28-30 found on Supersport race replicas like GSXR's, CBR-RR, ZX and YZF's from Japan. By moving the fork assembly back 10-12mm the trail would approach 100-102mm, and restore confidence, feel back and feel. Raising the front will help, but you will only pick up 1-2mm of trail, lowering the back will make the bike run wide off the corners. CCS, and therefore LRRS, do permit the use of aftermarket clamps in Supersport classes, so this problem can be fixed with in the rules. We can make a run of clamps for the 675, but need an initial order of 5 sets. If you guys know of any one interested, have them contact me directly.

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  19. #44
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by gmdboston View Post
    No front end feel from the Triumph. Flicks in great then, can't tell what's happening with the tire.
    According to Denno, the bike feels best mid corner and on the gas after the apex. Go figure

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  20. #45
    Fork oil in my veins.... gmdboston's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    According to Denno, the bike feels best mid corner and on the gas after the apex. Go figure
    At mid corner he's off the brakes and gets some trail back, then by opening the throttle the weight is transfered to the back, squatting the rear suspension and making the front end extend. This put more trail back in the front. Don't misunderstand me here Degsy, I'm not trashing Triumph. I like the bike, however all motorcycles are subject to the same laws of physics. A lack of trail causes vague front end feel and ultimately, front end tuck under. I've seen some riders that are able to cope with a lack of trail, but they are few and far between, and almost always crash by losing the front. Most of them set the rear suspension very soft so the bike squats and gains some trail back as as soon as the bike settles into the corner. That set up can work for a good laptime in qualifying where the rider is alone on the track, but when faced with having to brake late and trail the brakes into the corner to overtake, the front is often too vague to be trusted and makes racing difficult.

    The first gen Yamaha R6 (99-02) had the same issues. Forty millimeter clamps and no feel. The best we could do was to raise the front up as far as we could. I would lengthen the forks 15mm to get even more ride height. Then, when we got trail up to around 102 mm, the bike would sit so tall that it became difficult to get it in to the corner. So we had to find a setting some where between high initial effort to turn in and having some feel for trail braking and turning, or a light effort flicking in and little to no feel for trail braking and turning. The current trend in Motards is also similar. Take an MX bike designed for a 21" front wheel and put on 17" slicks and trail goes from 110-115mm to the low 70's and on the Husky's high 60's. They feel really light and flickable, but you can't trail brake at all. We make clamps that reduce the off set on the clamps by as much as 25mm on some models. The general consensus is that reduced off set clamps are good for over a second per lap on a Motard at NHMS. In 2003 Yamaha went to a 35mm off set and in 06 went to a 30mm. GSXR's were 35, then in 2000 went to 32mm, then in 06 went to 30mm. In 1998 the ZX6R had 30mm and the ZX9R had 35mm. A swap of OEM clamps was un-noticed in many Tech inspections. In 2003 the ZX6R went to 28mm. Back in the mid-nineties, the most requested chassis modification was to weld up the stock holes in the clamps and re-bore to a reduced off set. Not that I ever did that......ok well maybe a few dozen.

    I don't believe that Triumph designed the 675 with racing in mind. I believe it's target market is the street and track day crowd. These riders don't push the limit like a top level expert racer. Because riders on the street and at track days are not pushing the last 10% or so of the performance envelope, front end a tuck under is not as much of a concern. There fore the chassis designer can utilize steeper rake angles and lower trail figures, making the bike flick in with very little effort. It makes for a great handling street bike and works well for the average track day rider. A perfect fit for the market the bike was designed for. If you guys need help with the bike, let me know, I'd be happy to happy to work some thing out with you.

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  21. #46
    Lifer akira700's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by gmdboston View Post
    At mid corner he's off the brakes and gets some trail back, then by opening the throttle the weight is transfered to the back, squatting the rear suspension and making the front end extend. This put more trail back in the front. Don't misunderstand me here Degsy, I'm not trashing Triumph. I like the bike, however all motorcycles are subject to the same laws of physics. A lack of trail causes vague front end feel and ultimately, front end tuck under. I've seen some riders that are able to cope with a lack of trail, but they are few and far between, and almost always crash by losing the front. Most of them set the rear suspension very soft so the bike squats and gains some trail back as as soon as the bike settles into the corner. That set up can work for a good laptime in qualifying where the rider is alone on the track, but when faced with having to brake late and trail the brakes into the corner to overtake, the front is often too vague to be trusted and makes racing difficult.

    The first gen Yamaha R6 (99-02) had the same issues. Forty millimeter clamps and no feel. The best we could do was to raise the front up as far as we could. I would lengthen the forks 15mm to get even more ride height. Then, when we got trail up to around 102 mm, the bike would sit so tall that it became difficult to get it in to the corner. So we had to find a setting some where between high initial effort to turn in and having some feel for trail braking and turning, or a light effort flicking in and little to no feel for trail braking and turning. The current trend in Motards is also similar. Take an MX bike designed for a 21" front wheel and put on 17" slicks and trail goes from 110-115mm to the low 70's and on the Husky's high 60's. They feel really light and flickable, but you can't trail brake at all. We make clamps that reduce the off set on the clamps by as much as 25mm on some models. The general consensus is that reduced off set clamps are good for over a second per lap on a Motard at NHMS. In 2003 Yamaha went to a 35mm off set and in 06 went to a 30mm. GSXR's were 35, then in 2000 went to 32mm, then in 06 went to 30mm. In 1998 the ZX6R had 30mm and the ZX9R had 35mm. A swap of OEM clamps was un-noticed in many Tech inspections. In 2003 the ZX6R went to 28mm. Back in the mid-nineties, the most requested chassis modification was to weld up the stock holes in the clamps and re-bore to a reduced off set. Not that I ever did that......ok well maybe a few dozen.

    I don't believe that Triumph designed the 675 with racing in mind. I believe it's target market is the street and track day crowd. These riders don't push the limit like a top level expert racer. Because riders on the street and at track days are not pushing the last 10% or so of the performance envelope, front end a tuck under is not as much of a concern. There fore the chassis designer can utilize steeper rake angles and lower trail figures, making the bike flick in with very little effort. It makes for a great handling street bike and works well for the average track day rider. A perfect fit for the market the bike was designed for.
    Hey thanks Pete... I just learned a whole lot from that! Makes me rethink my dropping the front on my 600RR... I maybe raising it back up come spring time.

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  22. #47
    Just Registered Doc's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by gmdboston View Post
    At mid corner he's off the brakes and gets some trail back, then by opening the throttle the weight is transfered to the back, squatting the rear suspension and making the front end extend. This put more trail back in the front. Don't misunderstand me here Degsy, I'm not trashing Triumph. I like the bike, however all motorcycles are subject to the same laws of physics. A lack of trail causes vague front end feel and ultimately, front end tuck under. I've seen some riders that are able to cope with a lack of trail, but they are few and far between, and almost always crash by losing the front. Most of them set the rear suspension very soft so the bike squats and gains some trail back as as soon as the bike settles into the corner. That set up can work for a good laptime in qualifying where the rider is alone on the track, but when faced with having to brake late and trail the brakes into the corner to overtake, the front is often too vague to be trusted and makes racing difficult.

    The first gen Yamaha R6 (99-02) had the same issues. Forty millimeter clamps and no feel. The best we could do was to raise the front up as far as we could. I would lengthen the forks 15mm to get even more ride height. Then, when we got trail up to around 102 mm, the bike would sit so tall that it became difficult to get it in to the corner. So we had to find a setting some where between high initial effort to turn in and having some feel for trail braking and turning, or a light effort flicking in and little to no feel for trail braking and turning. The current trend in Motards is also similar. Take an MX bike designed for a 21" front wheel and put on 17" slicks and trail goes from 110-115mm to the low 70's and on the Husky's high 60's. They feel really light and flickable, but you can't trail brake at all. We make clamps that reduce the off set on the clamps by as much as 25mm on some models. The general consensus is that reduced off set clamps are good for over a second per lap on a Motard at NHMS. In 2003 Yamaha went to a 35mm off set and in 06 went to a 30mm. GSXR's were 35, then in 2000 went to 32mm, then in 06 went to 30mm. In 1998 the ZX6R had 30mm and the ZX9R had 35mm. A swap of OEM clamps was un-noticed in many Tech inspections. In 2003 the ZX6R went to 28mm. Back in the mid-nineties, the most requested chassis modification was to weld up the stock holes in the clamps and re-bore to a reduced off set. Not that I ever did that......ok well maybe a few dozen.

    I don't believe that Triumph designed the 675 with racing in mind. I believe it's target market is the street and track day crowd. These riders don't push the limit like a top level expert racer. Because riders on the street and at track days are not pushing the last 10% or so of the performance envelope, front end a tuck under is not as much of a concern. There fore the chassis designer can utilize steeper rake angles and lower trail figures, making the bike flick in with very little effort. It makes for a great handling street bike and works well for the average track day rider. A perfect fit for the market the bike was designed for. If you guys need help with the bike, let me know, I'd be happy to happy to work some thing out with you.
    That in itself was a mini clinic. Thanks Pete!

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  23. #48
    Lifer R1's Avatar
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    Re: New race team for '08

    So wait a minute here........

    WTF happened to denno?????????

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  24. #49
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by l3uddha View Post
    i know i saw at least one person racing a triumph (red one) up at NH...MS, any idea what they have for a setup and how they like it?
    Ask Narbonne this coming season, he'll be racing them. I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do.

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  25. #50
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    Re: New race team for '08

    Quote Originally Posted by R1slowflyer View Post
    So wait a minute here........

    WTF happened to denno?????????
    He'll be out of action for at least 6 weeks with 3 clavicle fractures, then it will be physical therapy for a while. He says he WILL be ready for the VIR test. Stupid crash due to fluid on the track. Not a very nice outcome considering how well things were going. They closed the track down because of the track surface issue. The bike is not too bad. Needs a couple of small things.

    What Denno doesn't need right now are smartass comments and cheap shots, so probably best to keep them to yourselves for the time being. Regular scheduled ballbusting can resume in a while, but for now just lay off it. :-)

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